First, let me say that I am sorry for your troubles.

The science supporting a link between autism and vaccines simply does not exist. Your experiences, while very real to you, do not indicate any link between the two. Even if your son's behavior seemed to change the day he got a vaccination shot that would not mean that one is linked to the other; correlation does NOT mean causation. Literally thousands of children are getting vaccinations every single day. If one of those children also happens to get stung by a bee on the same day should we claim that vaccines cause bee stings?

You are looking for something to blame; vaccines are not at fault. There simply isn't any plausible explanation, nor is there any scientific study, to back up these claims.

Your son got vaccinated and he got autism. There are a lot of people who got vaccinated of these many like to read (far far more of them than have autism); therefore, by your logic vaccinations cause reading.

You are not a doctor, you cannot diagnose autism and your child's condition might as well be something different then autism. Besides, there are many children with autism where it is very hard to tell. This antivaxx version of autism is typical. Further, you make a link between vaccination and his condition, whatever it is, while you don't know that. A biased anecdote is not proof.

If vaccination were to cause autism many more children would develop symptoms. Many, many more. But it doesn't. Claims by the antivaxx movement are debunked over and over. More importantly, this pseudo science causes diseases and deaths among children who would have been fine if they were vaccinated.We see revivals of dangerous diseases that were almost eradicated.

This antivaxx crap is typical. People who tend to believe this also tend to go to paranormal healers and other magical pseudo-figures who tell you not to rely on common sense and legislation. Of course they are not going to tell you you make an error in your judgement. They only want to sell you books, time, potions and lotions by feeding ignorance and mistrust.

Correlation does not prove causality. You have no idea whatsoever whether your child would have developed these symptoms without a vaccination.

So it happens, diagnoses of autism spectrum disorder generally occur at about the same time that first vaccinations are scheduled. This in no way whatsoever proves that vaccination is related to autism.

Wakefield's bowel disorder/autism connection has been fully discredited. His paper, funded by a lawyer who wanted 'evidence' written by a physician so he could pursue lawsuits, has been retracted by The Lancet- and as all now know, Wakefield has been struck off the UK Medical Register... and yet you continue to bleat that a vaccination caused your child's condition.

The acts of bearing and raising a child does not make anyone a medical expert.

"For those who still deny the link, are those who have never experienced this issue."

I have two Autistic children. I deny the link. Please don't speak for me.

For the purpose of this post, I'm reserving my opinion on whether vaccines cause autism, or at the very least create the "perfect storm" conditions for children with a predisposition, but I would ask all the naysayers who want to lean on all the "studies" (which, BTW, it cuts both ways, you can create a study to say whatever you want if you skew the results for the desired outcome, including just as easily one that "proves" there is no link), then WHAT...WHAT could possibly be causing the incidence of autism to rise at such an alarming rate? WHAT could possibly be the explanation...and save the one about better diagnosis...I am the mother of an autistic child, and I'd like to know, what other plausible explanations are out there?

Ok, What explains the bowel issues that my son experienced!??!???!!!

One day your body just not all of a sudden release water poop just because. I can remember the summer of 2008-May 2009, he had NOTHING but water poop! until I changed his diet.... it seems to calm down a bit. before the MMR vaccine, He never had this! Can you PLEASE TELL ME WHAT HAS HAPPENED!!!??

NOT even my son's Dr. has an explaination and his dr. does not believe in "leaky gut". I support Dr. Wakefield and always will! Who funds these studies, the vaccine industry themselves... SO OF COURSE they are going to say there is no link, OF COURSE they are going to say it's not vaccine related. WAKE UP PEOPLE! My child is the only proof I will EVER need!!!

No, no study can ever prove that there is no link -- there is no way to design, let alone conduct, a study to prove the negative here. The only way to determine if there is a link is to do studies that demonstrate a causal link. In the absence of such studies, we can't say there is a link. And the more studies are done that fail to show a link, the more we can feel comfortable saying there is no link.

By the same token, though the Wakefield has a serious negative impact on those who want to prove the link, his possible fraud and the consequences he is facing *do not* mean that there is no link; they don't even mean that all the studies out there are discredited. Certainly Wakefield's studies and results must now be reviewed with suspicion, and may be completely discredited; but it is still possible that someone, someday, may be able to conduct a study that demonstrates a link and can be replicated consistently to demonstrate the link conclusively.

Until that happens, though, there is no proven link. By contrast, there is a proven link between vaccination and improved health of children and communities. This is where the weight of the evidence lies, and where public policy and personal responsibility should be directed.

lawmom2004 said: "WHAT could possibly be the explanation"

1) Better diagnosis, better reporting, expansion of symptomology described as autism all leads to increased numbers of autism cases.

2) larger population and a steady percentage leads to increased numbers of cases.

3) increased reporting leads to a greater awareness (and a seeming epidemic)

Are 3 reasons enough, or do I need to go on? This is not something that anti-vax people think rationally about, so I doubt ANY evidence would change your mind...

In replay to Lawmom about the increase of autism cases, please read this article: http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=95

Basically, it appears the definition of 'autism' has been broadened over the years. When you go back and apply todays diagnostic methods to cases of children diagnosed with other disorders, you find that many children would have been diagnosed as 'autistic' back then if the medical community was using the same diagnstic tests as today.

Carol Bender said:

"Ok, What explains the bowel issues that my son experienced!??!???!!!"

1) During growth and development, many changes are happening. Allergies can develop AT ANY TIME, even to things that had previously prevoked NO reactions.

2) It is possible that you mis-remember the actual timing of these events and have linked them based on what you have heard in the news, forgeting earlier episodes of diarrhea.

"Can you PLEASE TELL ME WHAT HAS HAPPENED!!!??" ----- Without a detailed dietary list both before and after, I doubt ANYONE can tell you exactly what happened. Has he been tested for gluten allergy and lactose intolerance? Were the tests positive?

"I support Dr. Wakefield and always will!" ---- Even after the evidence of his fraud? Why do you feel this liar warrents such devotion?

"Who funds these studies, the vaccine industry themselves..." ---- Do you actually have proof of this, or are you ad hoc reasons to disbelieve something that would destroy the paradigm you have erected?

"My child is the only proof I will EVER need!!!" ----- This statement of absolute belief leads me to conclude that no amount of discourse will ever change your mind. Only well-designed studies that minimize outside influences can show causal effect. Weird things happen all the time and superstitions are the result of seeing a causal effect where none exists...Please WAKE UP yourself and read what RESEARCHERS (trained in the scientific method) have to say...read the journals...NOT THE INTERNET (which is full of misinformation on everything!) or some hollywood star.

Actually, beyond all the studies, there is a bit of simple logic that shows MMR vaccine is not a cause of autism.

Thanks to Wakefield's scaremongering, vaccination rates dropped in the UK by almost 15% at one point.

If MMR is the cause of autism (or one cause, or a trigger, or have something to do with it), the rate of autism in the UK should have dropped. The logic is simple: if there is less of a cause, there should be less of an effect. If we have a 15% drop in MMR uptake, we should see a 15% drop in autism (or 10%, or 5%, or something).

Instead, the autism rate continued to increase, showing that MMR (at least) has absolutely nothing to do with autism. No relation whatsoever.

It is very sad to hear stories of parents who are convinced that their children suffered from vaccination. And I believe them when they say that they started noticing the symptoms around the vaccination. But the vaccine is not the cause.

The fact remains vaccines aren't risk free. I personally don't beleive that autism is the only thing to consider when getting a vaccine. Just read the package insert or meet others that have been affected with seizures, ITP and other neuromuscular disorders as a direct result of vaccination. It all comes down to each individual determining what is best for themselves. It is about informed consent and unfortunateley not many people are given that.

Well actually, you aren't comparing the unvaxxed children with the vaxxed kids. If there was a study on this then you could make such a judgement but there isn't. Using your logic, say the unvaxxed kids have no rates of autism, then the vaxxed population is getting higher much, much faster.

Nothing in life is risk free. But vaccines are as good as risk free; the number of people who reported significant symptoms after vaccination was 0.07% in the last decade and it was not even possible to verify that all these cases were caused by the vaccine. When you compare this to the benefit of vaccination, it is clear that the tiny risk is completely outweighed by how much lower your risk to get one of the various diseases we vaccinate against will be. People often forget what the world was like before we vaccinated, how horrible and how common diseases like polio were. It's like people refusing to pay for the upkeep of dykes because their land has never been flooded in their lifetime.

Of course you are right about this, I hadn't realised that vaccination rates had dropped so far, explains why I got whooping cough last Christmas though. I caught it from my 20 year old son who had been immunised but the vaccine wears off and now so many children are unvaccinated there is an epidemic of this and other easily prevented diseases.

Another reason why there appears to be more kids with austism than there used to be is that they used to get put into institutions and ignored, even forgetten about. People were ashamed about this sort of thing and didn't talk about it. Nowadays these kids are kept in the community and treated which makes them far more noticeable. I guess a bit of the shame remains though which is partly why they're so keen to find a scapegoat, if it's the fault of the vaccines then everyone else is off the hook.

No one denies your loss and pain, to whatever degree you have experienced it.

However we must draw the line between intuition (mother's or otherwise) and demonstrable facts.

The facts are that it has been repeatedly demonstrated that any connection between vaccines and autism is statistically undetectable. I could quote the studies, but my experience is that the evidence will go ignored or be poo-poo'd by y'all.

Now compare this to the almost certain acquisition of some diseases with a relatively high rate of complications or death by the un-vaccinated.

The anti-vaxxers count on others to provide the herd immunity that protects their children, living in some lala land where if they cover their ears hard enough the words of truth from the scientists will not get through.

They conveniently ignore the very real deaths that not vaccinating is causing to their ranks and to those who's immunity is compromised or cannot take the vaccine for some reason. Pardon me if I consider such folks ignorant and short sighted.

Autism is hereditary. My mother is a Special Ed. teacher in San Diego, and there are parents who actually expect their kids to get better, and get angry and blame the school when they don't. One teacher told them flat out, "I can't make your child normal."

One mother took her child down to Tijuana for an injection of sheep brains into his skull, which was supposed to "cure" his autism. Sheep brains! You truly can get anything you want south of the border, I guess...

No, Sandra, it isn't "each individual determining what is best for themselves." Since no vaccine is 100%, even vaccinated children are put at some risk every time they are exposed to the disease (albeit a small one). Therefore, if you don't vaccinate your child and he/she becomes ill, AND has contact with my child before symptoms are apparent, your "personal" decision just had a direct impact on my child. This is a public health issue, something we in this country have become horribly lax about. Just read up on antibiotic resistant TB if you want an example of how "personal choice" can impact our entire community. It is the result in large part of TB patients not completing their medicine regimens - their "personal choice" - thereby creating resistant strains. Add to that the fact that community health organizations have repeatedly lost legal ground to enforce treatment, and we have a new epidemic on our hands. The same scenario is true of the measles in Britain after this quack's bogus claims. Go ahead, look up some of the possible consequences of measles for children and pregnant women (I had several deaf friends as a child thanks to rubella), then tell me you or anyone else should have the "personal choice" to expose me or my loved ones to this disease when there is a time-tested, well-documented way to prevent it. The risks of vaccination pale in comparison to the consequences of contagion.

Everything offered by the medical community is promoted as safe, until (and if) it's found not to be. Every drug on the market underwent scientific tests which deemed it to be safe but nonetheless many drugs are later found to be unsafe. I do realize that vaccines are different from drugs, but my point is that it's probably not wise to put 100% blind faith in the results of medical testing (particularly when there is so much funding of the studies by the pharms). The fact is that no one knows what does cause autism. Yes, there seems to be a genetic component but there may also be an environmental trigger to 'switch it on' in some cases. I don't think the personal experiences of so many (although of course not all) mothers of autistic children should be so summarily dismissed out of hand. What's infuriating is the political pressure to offer solely the MMR when it is perfectly possible for these vaccines to be split into three separate injections at different times. This would allay many parents concerns and increase the number of previously nervous parents to have their children vaccinated. The risks of vaccination may pale in comparison to the consequences of contagion, but autism is a disease for which I'm willing to take 0% risk. Merck produced the vaccines individually until just the beginning of 2009 and now they do not, so I'm waiting to vaccinate my girls until they're three next year, whereas I would have been happy, and eager, for them to receive the individual vaccines at age two.

Six tactics that all denialist movements use.

1. Allege that there's a conspiracy. Claim that scientific consensus has arisen through collusion rather than the accumulation of evidence.

2. Use fake experts to support your story. "Denial always starts with a cadre of pseudo-experts with some credentials that create a facade of credibility," says Seth Kalichman of the University of Connecticut.

3. Cherry-pick the evidence: trumpet whatever appears to support your case and ignore or rubbish the rest. Carry on trotting out supportive evidence even after it has been discredited.

4. Create impossible standards for your opponents. Claim that the existing evidence is not good enough and demand more. If your opponent comes up with evidence you have demanded, move the goalposts.

5. Use logical fallacies. Hitler opposed smoking, so anti-smoking measures are Nazi. Deliberately misrepresent the scientific consensus and then knock down your straw man.

6. Manufacture doubt. Falsely portray scientists as so divided that basing policy on their advice would be premature. Insist "both sides" must be heard and cry censorship when "dissenting" arguments or experts are rejected.

You'll thank me some day.

Hi Carol. I totally believe you. I have a friend whose child was developing typically and the day after the mmr vaccine was doubled over and could no longer speak or make eye contact. My son was overloaded with the Chicken pox shot and has signs of measles infestation. The chicken pox overload shows up on his titers test, but the measles does not show up. However, I know of families who've had their children spinal tapped and then the exact strain of the measles from the shot is there, wreaking havoc on their nervous systems. They are severely autistic. I think the medical community needs to come up with prior testing to see which children can genetically handle the diseases and which ones cannot before they just go injecting them.

Obey, actually parents should expect their children to get better. I am a behavior therapist and see my kids make improvements daily. I have a child who is 3 years old and severly autistic. He came to us almost completely nonverbal but since just january has mastered over 300 targets receptively and expressively in his labels program. I'm working on my BCBA and plan to spend my life making young autistic children my priority because I whole heartedly believe that they can get better and that many can be recovered and normalized. 47% of the children at my well known company are normalized and enter into regular public schools and regular classrooms with no label of autism anywhere in their file because they have successfully completed our program and are no longer lacking in any developmental areas. Yes, it is a lot of hard work and of course not every child will get the same results but aba therapy can do wonders.

Carol,

I appreciate your post as a Mom who's been there. (However, I feel as though commenting affirmatively is like throwing oneself to the wolves. Yikes!) At three months old, my son had a reaction following the Prevnar and HiB vaccinations, one of which had aluminum in it. I continued with our plan of vaccinations (alternate schedule) thinking that it couldn't be...it was just a little reaction...there's no science behind it, etc. I had done my research on vaccinations and didn't want to be excessively cautious, feel that vaccinations are important, etc. And yet, my son changed dramatically that DAY in a way that nothing else could explain. It was such a pointed change that while I can see the caution behind a causal relationship between vaccinations and autism, I absolutely cannot deny my belief in a link between the vaccinations and autism for some children. I think that there must be many factors to autism, but feel that there must be some sort of correlation between Autism and vaccinations. What is needed is for the medical/scientific community to stop being so defensive and help to figure out why for some children, vaccinations seem to have such an effect. Maybe they are doing this already; I hope so. While every child is wonderful, it is one of the most devastating experiences in life to feel your used-to-be-normal child slipping away and that you are helpless to understand or respond.

My best to you and your family.

I feel for you Carol. I can't even imagine. I am a parent who gets my children vaccinated and cross my fingers it does not happen to me. Can anyone PROVE definitively that multiple vaccinations during a very specific period of time, for a very specific type of child, does not cause autism? I doubt it. Maybe it is a child who just had eggs 1 hour before the vaccine. Or maybe an egg from a chicken that had antibiotics administered. Or hormone treatment. Or a strawberry that was sprayed with some type of chemical. (all things that are increasing these days). Or ANYTHING that is becoming more and more prevalent in our society. Maybe the combination is causing some type of strange reaction in certain kids.

Now that children in England are not being vaccinated as much, which I don't think is actually a good idea at this point, but I'm wondering if there are any studies on these children to determine how many develop autism anyway. Does the percentage match those of the general population? I would be interested in THAT study!

As a matter of fact, I HAVE experienced it, and yes, I do DENY there is a link. Why? Because my child's regressive autism occurred 5 months after his six month vaccinations and one month prior to 1 yr shots. We had all the same issues, lack of interest/development, intestinal problems, etc.

There have been many, many "theories" about what causes autism over the years and I believe we'll see in the next ten years, through conclusive scientific research (not paranoia mongering) that it is in fact caused by a combination of genes, that when put under stress cause dissociation in the synapses of the brain.

Forty years ago (give or take) the medical community blamed YOU (the mother) for your child's autism, calling you "Cold" and asserting that your lack of parental love for your child is what caused it. That is no more true than vaccines inducing mass autism. If it truly were vaccines that caused autism the statistics would be much, much higher than 1 in 150.

I detest the hysterical "VACCINES CAUSED MY CHILD'S AUTISM! ! ! !" paranoia and panic mongering Wakefield and his garbage report have caused. Are you aware that there are actually more children born with autism than there are like ours (regressive)? Or that it is more prevalent in boys than it is in girls? How does your "vaccine theory" explain that?

The simple fact is this: We still do not have enough information at this time, from the research we've done to this point, to come to a conclusive statement regarding the cause of Autism.

In the meantime, go read something productive, like "Thinking in Pictures" by Temple Grandin (who is not only autistic, but has a PhD).

Micheal-1836329 and MrPeach, thank you for contributing logic and facts :)

My son is autistic. When he was 2 1/2 I noticed something wasn't right. He is a very smiley kid and makes eye contact, but then from one minute to the next he is gone. He seems stressed out right before he is gone. We have a problem to control his weight, he is gaining like crazy. Personally I wouldn't be surprised if research would show that a virus causes Autism.

Peet (amanda, I presume?)

"If vaccination were to cause autism many more children would develop symptoms. Many, many more. But it doesn't."

1 in 110 (per the CDC) isn't enough for you? How about 1 in 91? Ummmm, why not 1 in 58 boys? Does that do it for you? How many "many mores" would you like? I have an idea, how about 1 in your doorstep. Would that do it for ya? Huh?

@momonamission

Citation needed. Also you need to be able to show that it is significantly more likely for children who are vaccinated to develop autism than it is for those who aren't vaccinated. In other words, you have to conclusively show the opposite findings of the following study from the New England Journal of Medicine:

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/short/347/19/1477

Results Of the 537,303 children in the cohort (representing 2,129,864 person-years), 440,655 (82.0 percent) had received the MMR vaccine. We identified 316 children with a diagnosis of autistic disorder and 422 with a diagnosis of other autistic-spectrum disorders. After adjustment for potential confounders, the relative risk of autistic disorder in the group of vaccinated children, as compared with the unvaccinated group, was 0.92 (95 percent confidence interval, 0.68 to 1.24), and the relative risk of another autistic-spectrum disorder was 0.83 (95 percent confidence interval, 0.65 to 1.07). There was no association between the age at the time of vaccination, the time since vaccination, or the date of vaccination and the development of autistic disorder.

Conclusions This study provides strong evidence against the hypothesis that MMR vaccination causes autism.

They looked at over half a million children born between 1991 and 1998 and found that those who WERE vaccinated were actually slightly LESS likely to develop autism and LESS likely still to develop ASD.

More and more children have autism then they did 40 years ago and is it just a coincidence that there is more and more vaccinations given in higher doses? And have you seen the ingredients that are put into them? I agree that most people don't think it's the vaccinations unless they have seen first hand it being their own child spiral down hill from autism. It's not only heartbreaking but very lonely for parents and the families affected. So to all you mothers (and father) who don't have a child with autism you should be thankful and hold your tongue from criticism.

@LauraMichael

More and more children have autism then they did 40 years ago and is it just a coincidence that there is more and more vaccinations given in higher doses?

Yes, that's how it works. Unless you can show that there is a causation, then you cannot conclude that it is anything other than a coincidence. We have vastly more satellites in orbit around the earth now than we did 40 years ago. Our diagnosis of autism and ASD has increased a lot in 40 years. Coincidence? Yes unless you think that kids are somehow getting autism because of the number of satellites we're shooting off into space.

So to all you mothers (and father) who don't have a child with autism you should be thankful and hold your tongue from criticism.

Pure, pathetic, infuriating NONSENSE! I will not hold my tongue. Number 1, no study anywhere on the planet has EVER come to the conclusion that vaccines have anything whatsoever to do with autism. Number 2, by not vaccinating their children and encouraging others to do the same, anti-vaxxers are putting MY CHILDREN at risk. My childrens' safety gives me not only the right but the duty to call out these people with whatever breath I can muster. Their tragedy does not absolve them from criticism. Period.

I completely agree with you and I would like science to not just sit on its hands and start looking at an immune response as many children regress after other types of shots as well. There is more going on than meets the eye. My daughter did not have any shots and has autism. I had whooping cough while 6 months pregnant with her. We also do alternative treatments with her. She used to be very severe and she is now moderate. I think it is sad how you are being attacked. But no to be unexpected. It is a problem when people cannot listen and won't listen just because they do not want to believe. They will believe when it happens to their child. In fact that is where a lot of DAN! doctors got their start.

I am so sorry Carol that you have to deal with this ALL because of vaccines!!!

How you people can be so naive is beyond me!!! We know the truth and if you want to believe lies so be it!!!! We are not just following Dr. WAKEFIELD... there are THOUSANDS of highly educated DOCTORS such as brain surgeons, neurosurgeons and Md's that have done many researches and proved his SO called theories!! By all means vaccinate your children and find out how sick they get!! It is NOT just autism it causes... cancer, leukemia, ear infections, flu's, colds, diabetes... it lowers their immune systems and kills the white blood cells so they can't fight off sicknesses naturally!! It causes much, MUCH more than just autism!! it is all the mercury and aluminum in the vaccines which they call mercury Thimerasol now... so you don't think you are injecting your child with mercury!! But, actually thimerasol is 49% mercury by weight!! Figure that one... they change the name to trick people into believing they are mercury free!! Their is monkey kidney and aborted baby fetus tissue.... formaldehyde!! I could go on and on!! Tell me... why is autism rising?? it is because we are increasing vaccines... 30 years ago autism was 1 in 5000 ... 20 years ago it was 1 in 1500.. 10 years ago it was 1 in 500 and NOW it is 1 in 100 some states where you CAN"T get exemptions 1 in 70!!!! We use to have ONLY a few vaccines and NOW we have 37 by age SIX... and they keep adding more and MORE!! You need to do your research before you look like a fool!! Vaccines DON'T prevent diseases... they cause them!! PERIOD!!! Look at the CDC... they contradict themselves.... CDC, FDA, and the WHO have NO facts!!! They say" we ALL are not safe unless we are ALL vaccinated..." Why is that??? I thought you were protected when you are vaccinated??? So why would THEY care if we didn't vaccinate... they are injecting themselves with vaccines that are suppose to protect them... so why would they worry about the unvaccinated giving them something?? If their THEORY is correct... they wouldn't get diseases from the unvaccinated because they are protected....(that is the whole reason you vaccinate, right?) Then WHY would the vaccinated fell threatened??? They don't care about you... they ONLY care about their MULTI-BILLION dollar industries!!!! There are thousands of children that are injured from these vaccines and they WILL NOT document it!! Why do you think they have the Vaccine ACT out... it is to cover the big pHARMA'S, doctors and vaccine companies butts!! VERY SAD!! If they could prove vaccines DON'T harm... why would they need to pass a law that you can NO longer sue them??? If they can prove it so easily... they would win in court NO problem... but the FACT is.... they WEREN'T winning... they were losing money and they couldn't' STAND losing their MULTI-BILLION dollar companies!! That is a FACT!! SO I suggest you do your research!!!!

HarrisTweed..

The study that you refer to that compared 'autism rates for the un-vaccinated to the vaccinated' used children born between 1991 and 1998. That is nearly 20 years ago! How about a study of children born between 2007 and today. If this happens before the first 4 years of life, and the incidents are increasing at such a RAPID rate, why doesn't anyone do this study (or are they)?Someone wrote of ONE person that had one child vaccinated and they other was not. Both children have autism. One sample case does not give conclusive evidence of no link.

For those who still deny the link, are those who have never experienced this issue.

I work with children with autism. My brother is severely autistic. I have experienced this issue. I categorically deny the link. Please do not speak on my behalf.

Michael 1836329 -

1. yeah, I guess you missed the part where I said save the one about better diagnosis -

2. has there been a 10,000% percent increase in the population in the last 20 years? according to your logic, the increase in population would have to be commensurate with the increase in the rate of autism diagnosis...it was 1 in 10,000 20+ years ago, now it's 1 in 152 (give or take, depending on which statistic you want to go with, I went with the conservative one here, even though some are now quoting rates as high as 1 in 58, for boys)

3. so, now the extra 10,000 increase in the population is also reporting 100% of the time, as opposed to before...

I said in my post I was reserving my judgment because I don't feel like I've researched the issue enough to speak definitively on it (I'm not a doctor) and based on my personal experiences. I didn't have the dramatic regression the day after the MMR as some parents speak of because my son was born prematurely, so he was delayed from day 1 and I can't say that the vaccine was "the cause" of his autism. I think it may have contributed to an already compromised immune system which might have made him susceptible to whatever other factors create that "perfect storm."

However, I would appreciate if you'd kindly cut the crap with the condescending tone of your posts, as they give your arguments much less credibility...thou doth protest too much...in fact, the treatment and disdain that the "no link" camp has for the anti-vaccine parents is quite alarming...who died and made you God?

Again, I'm not anti-vaccine (in fact my son was fully vaccinated up to age 5), but I guess you missed that part of my post as well...

Blessings to you and yours...

@More Research needed!!

How convenient that the 1990s is just too long ago for a study to be valid. There is no reason to think the findings in that study of over half a million children is anything other than valid. The supposed link between vaccines and autism was just as hotly debated then as it is now. The world hasn't magically decided to turn upside down and spill out evidence where once there was none. This is an example of stereotypical anti-science nonsense. The question has been answered beyond all reasonable doubts. The only thing the anti-vax crowd has is unreasonable doubts.

If you people were sincere about your desire to determine the causes of autism and hopefully find a treatment or maybe even a cure, you'd stop pushing your asinine agenda so that no more money and time has to be spent on this ridiculously unproductive goose chase.

My grandson's heavy metal testing demonstrated off the charts at the level of 1,260, with 100 being considered "normal" level, but of course just because vaccines have levels of aluminum that are way beyond safe, that has nothing to do with autism, right?

Regarding the Aluminum issue, over 30 years ago I learned about it's neurotoxicity and connection to Alzheimers, so I got rid of commercial deodorant, quit drinking out of aluminum cans, and threw away my aluminum pots and pans. When my grandson's heavy metals test demonstrated aluminum off the charts, I was horrified, but we started him on Methyl B12 cream right away to restore his B12 detox path way and reverse his myelin sheath damage, and wow it did exactly that. Then we added the Glutathione cream with further amazing progress. In fact these creams worked so amazingly well, that the FDA recently issued the company with a cease and desist order to stop selling these and the rest of their entire line of transdermal creams. Thank you FDA for ridding America of these dangerous nutritional products, while preserving all of these wonderful patented drugs that kill hundreds of thousands of people every year. Yes FDA, you are the "watchdog" for Americans (the watchdog that bites us in the ass).

Now they removed the Mercury supposedly, or at least most of it (because you know it's really just not dangerous), and the Aluminum is just as "not dangerous" so they tell us.

And that rumor that mercury and aluminum disintegrate the myelin sheath right off the nerves, well that couldn't have anything to do with the fact that my grandson could no longer walk or talk right after his last batch of nine doses of vaccines.

And of course the MMR does not produce intestinal damage, and anyway we all know that intestinal damage does not produce autism anyway because there is really no "gut brain connection". Well just because my grandson developed massive diarrhea that was so acidic it ate his skin away, stayed up all night with intestinal cramping and non stop screaming, and then turned into a zombie with no recognition of us anymore, that does not mean that there is any connection between all of this and the MMR. There really is "no gut brain connection", that would ever influence his behaviors...and just because he started hitting, biting and kicking us instead of giving us hugs and kisses right after the vaccines, and then banging his head and flapping his arms, well that doesn't prove anything. Even though all of this occurred immediately after the vaccines, we all do know of course that this is simply a "coincidence", and it is also simply a "coincidence" that hundreds of thousands of other families have witnessed the EXACT SAME THING. Yes it is just millions of coincidences and we are all just "looking for something to blame for our children's autism", now aren't we???!!

Aluminum Toxicity Medical Research and Studies:

Read full article here: http://www.hbci.com/~wenonah/hydro/al.htm

"Over 7,000 reference articles on aluminum toxicity existed in various data bases as of 1936. Today there are more than a million [reference articles]all recognizing the toxicity."

Is Aluminum the New Thimerosal?
By Robert W. Sears M.D.

http://www.mothering.com/articles/growing_child/vaccines/aluminum-new-thimerosal.html

New Warning About Everyday Poison Linked to Alzheimer's, ADHD, and Autism

Dr. Mercola

Read article and watch VIDEO here: http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/03/20/david-ayoub-interview-february-2010.aspx

All I can say is that my grandchild changed dramatically after the mmr.. but I am only a parent and grandmother, what do I know, I am not a medical professional or scientist. It makes my blood boil too when ignorant comments are made concerning the link between vaccines and autism. Yes there are children out there apparantly that were just born with autism as well, with no link to vaccines. I know what I have witnessed and it is hard to get real help in curing my grandson. My other grandson did not get vaccinated and he is healthy and smart. We could not take the chance to create another autistic child. A therapist for autism has before and after videos of her son, the before is a perfectly normal healthy child, the after, so bad, a child that can no longer speak or function by himself, a child that has to always wear a helmet so he wont hurt himself with the head banging etc. Unfortunately to verify my argument I do not have before and after videos, I just know what I know, and I think we need to be open minded enough to acknowledge that there are real people out there that are being affected detrimentally by vaccines. I am from another country and experienced measles, mumps chicken pox, hey I am still alive! I cannot believe how many vaccines are given to these poor babies here in this country. It seems the medical community and the pharmaceutical companies are in a great relationship, a very toxic marriage you might want to say.

Carol - those who do not believe there is a link likely do not have a child or family member with autism. Sometimes it takes a first-hand experience before people are willing to look at what is going in with fresh eyes. Also, there seems to be a lack of understanding about what the general consensus of the autism community is saying - vaccines may not directly cause autism "end of story" but may, in fact, be a big factor. Keep your head up and stay strong. Someday this whole thing will be figured out!

Everyone's body chemistry is different. My question is an allergic reaction. If people can be allergic to food, medicine, and pollen than why couldn't they have an allergic reaction to any vaccination not just the MMR. I have personally seen lots of people with no family history with autism. If its not the vaccination then its all the artificial chemicals in our foods, and in our environment. So instead of arguing that it couldn't just be the vaccine. Why don't we take a look as a whole that many different things besides vaccines are causing it. Too many people have said that vaccines cause it. There are millions of people in the United States; its something in that vaccine triggering a gene. Allergies to a chemical in the vaccine or some chemical that is so common in our food/environment is interacting with the vaccine causing people to believe its the vaccine.. Start genetically testing and seeing if there is a link with all of the chemicals and a reaction to the vaccine.

Kari,
I WANT to know the same thing! I am also not aware of the "large studies".

I also want to know the names of the doctors with these large studies showing no causal linnk between vaccines and autism. It seems that Dr. Wakefield is the only doctor that has a "real" study? If the other journals and articles out there and do exist then why don't we talk to those doctors and examine the articles to ensure they were done properly and the findings are accurate and can be replicated!

Measles vaccination and antibody response in autism spectrum disorders

CONCLUSION: No association between measles vaccination and ASD was shown. (57,000 children)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18252754

~~~

Measles Mumps Rubella and mercury-based immunizations cleared as causes of autism (28,000 children)

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2006-07/mu-mmr070406.php

~~~

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/357/13/1281

Early Thimerosal Exposure and Neuropsychological Outcomes at 7 to 10 Years (1047 children)

Conclusions: Our study does not support a causal association between early exposure to mercury from thimerosal-containing vaccines and immune globulins and deficits in neuropsychological functioning at the age of 7 to 10 years.

~~~

These are just three I found by searching. I am sure there are more. Hopefully, they will post the studies Lauer was referring to.

Me too! I also have been studying Autism in depth, and would like to know what "studies" he was referring to.

Matt Lauer, or anyone for that fact, can find studies that supposedly find no link. The problem is that these are not studies comparing NEVER vaccinated children vs vaccinated children. That is the kind of study we need. The studies they will find will be looking at a specific vaccine but the problem is the control group may not have received that specific vaccine but they will have received other vaccines.

We need a NEVER vaccinated vs vaccinated study. Dr. Bernadine Healy has come out and said the same thing. The science has not been done. At a minimum we should be doing primate studies that mimic our schedule. There has been one done but NBC has not reported on it, at least as far as I know. Wakefield suggested more research and breaking apart the MMR, it was the British government that removed the option of individual shots.

This does not have to be an all or nothing situation. However, until the public health officials do the correct/moral thing and start addressing the situation instead of trying to hide it, the vaccination rates will continue to drop. We don't need 100% compliance to maintain herd immunity. If we could identify those at risk, then those not at risk would be safe to vaccinate and herd immunity would stay intact.

Meanwhile, while we wait the numbers continue to increase. The numbers of kids injured and now suffering with ASD, ADHD, asthma, allergies, learning disabilities, etc. continues to skyrocket. We are sacrificing the future of our children and our country with this mess. The public education is struggling to barely keep up and the tax payers will soon be hit with the financial reality of spending billons to care of adult autisic people once their parents pass away.

This affects everyone.

For those of you who for some reason have trouble stumbling across the vast, overwhelming scientific consensus rejecting the vaccine-autism theory and the numerous studies that have destroyed Wakefield's claim, take a look at the following:

Thimerosal and Autism Studies

Neuropsychological performance 10 years after immunization in infancy with thimerosal-containing vaccines. --Pediatrics, Tozzi AE, Bisiacchi P, Tarantino V, De Mei B, D'Elia L, Chariotti F, Salmaso S. (January 2009)

Continuing Increases in Autism Reported to California's Developmental Services System — Archives of General Psychiatry, Robert Schechter, MD, MSc and Judith K. Grether, PhD (January 2008)

"Early Thimerosal Exposure and Neuropsychological Outcomes at 7 to 10 Years" — New England Journal of Medicine, Thompson WW, Price C, Goodson B, et al. (September, 2007)

“Lack of Association Between Rh Status, Rh Immune Globulin in Pregnancy and Autism” — American Journal of Medical Genetics, Judith H. Miles and T. Nicole Takahashi (May 2007)

"Comparison of Blood and Brain Mercury Levels in Infant Monkeys Exposed to Methylmercury or Vaccines Containing Thimerosal"
– Environmental Health Perspectives, Thomas M. Burbacher, PhD (April 2005)

"Thimerosal Exposure in Infants and Developmental Disorders: A Prospective Cohort Study in the United Kingdom Does Not Support a Causal Association"
– Pediatrics, John Heron and Nick Andrews, PhD and Jean Golding, DSc (September 2004)

"Neurotoxic Effects of Postnatal Thimerosal Are Mouse Strain Dependent"
– Molecular Psychiatry, M Hornig, MD (June 2004)

"Safety of Thimerosal-Containing Vaccines: A Two-Phased Study of Computerized Health Maintance Organization Database"
- Pediatrics, Thomas Verstraeten, MD (November 2003)

"Association Between Thimerosal-Containing Vaccine and Autism"
– Journal of the American Medical Association, Anders Hviid, MSc (October 2003)

"Thimerosal and the Occurrence of Autism: Negative Ecological Evidence from Danish Population-Based Data"
– Pediatrics, Kreesten M. Madsen, MD (September 2003)

"Autism and Thimerosal-Containing Vaccines: Lack of Consistent Evidence for an Association"
– American Journal of Preventive Medicine, Paul Stehr-Green, DrPh, MPH (August 2003)

"Thimerosal and Autism?"
– Pediatrics, Karen Nelson, MD (March 2003)

"Mercury concentrations and metabolism in infants receiving vaccines containing thiomersal: A descriptive study"
– The Lancet, Michael Pichichero, MD (November 2002)

Measles-Mumps-Rubella (MMR) Vaccine and Autism Studies

"Lack of Association Between Measles Virus Vaccine and Autism with Enteropathy: A Case-Control Study"
-PLoS One, Hornig M, Briese T, Buie T, Bauman ML, Lauwers G, et al. (September 2008)

"Measles Vaccination and Antibody Response in Autism Spectrum Disorders"
-Archives of Disease in Childhood, Gillian Baird, F.R.C.Paed. (February 2008)

"Pervasive Developmental Disorders in Montreal, Quebec, Canada: Prevalence and Links With Immunizations"
-Pediatrics, Eric Fombonne, MD (Volume 118, Number 1, July 2006)

"MMR Vaccination and Pervasive Developmental Disorders: A Case-Control Study"
– The Lancet, Liam Smeeth, MRCGP (September 11, 2004)

"Association of Autistic Spectrum Disorder and the Measles, Mumps, and Rubella Vaccine"
– Archives of Pediatrics & Adolescent Medicine, Kumanan Wilson, MD, MSc, FRCP (July 2003)

"Neurologic Disorders After Measles-Mumps-Rubella Vaccination"
– Pediatrics, Annamari Makela, MD (Volume 110, Number 5, November 2002)

"No Evidence for a New Variant of Measles-Mumps-Rubella-Induced Autism"
– Pediatrics, Eric Fombonne, FRCPsych (Volume 108, Number 4, October 2001)

sciencenotfear, congratulations.. You are snookered like everyone else.. It's not just the MMR vaccination. Please show the studies on the more than 5 vaccinations. Heck, how about the entire recommended schedule.

Good luck!!

Big Mike 111, see, this is the problem with antivaccination cultists. NOTHING will convince you that your religion of 'vaccines cause teh autizm!!' is false. Wakefield struck off medical register? It's obviously a 'Big Pharma' conspiracy against him. No reputable researcher can replicate Mr Wakefield's results? Clearly, those 'other researchers' are incompetent.

If you fail to vaccinate your children, you're a child abuser, no more, no less.

I also want to know who PAID for these "large scale studies".

@political sky: yeah, as opposed to who paid for Wakeman's studies and what he stood to gain from it...

Political Sky, maybe you should be more concerned about who paid for Wakefield's original study. http://briandeer.com/mmr/lancet-summary.htm

Wow, way to move the goalposts there guys.

A: "What large scale studies? There aren't any!"

B: "Okay, here are several large scale studies."

A: "No, we meant the large scale studies that were done under conditions we came up with after the ones showing no link were published!"

And by the way, here's a sentence from the Taylor et. al. 1999 paper: "There was no difference in age at diagnosis [of autism] between the cases vaccinated before or after 18 months of age and those never vaccinated." (context and emphasis added) So there's your study involving children who've never been vaccinated.

Big Mike 111,

you might be interested in this study which just came out in Pediatrics:

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/peds.2009-2489v1

Long term health effects of multiple vaccinations. Result-

Timely vaccination during infancy has no adverse effect on neuropsychological outcomes 7 to 10 years later. These data may reassure parents who are concerned that children receive too many vaccines too soon.

There are no studies which recreate Mr. Wakefield's studies on autism and vaccines. In order to make the claim he made on TV that his work has been replicated he had to "expand the truth" as one of his colleagues would say.

"Who paid for the studies"

If you pay taxes, then YOU have paid for some of the studies.

momsense

"Big Mike 111, see, this is the problem with antivaccination cultists. NOTHING will convince you that your religion of 'vaccines cause teh autizm!!' is false."

Love your purposefully misspelled words. Big Mike makes this statement because perhaps you are not aware that there are no, none, zip, nada, zilch, goose egg, not one, not a one, not any, zippo, not an iota of, ZERO studies of the effects of multiple vaccines administered to an infant.

Calling parents of disabled, vaccine injured children antivaccination cultists will certainly win you brownie points with the public in general.

I am personally having a blast reading all the comments on this site. Really...enjoying watching the naysayers get nastier and nastier. Oh, did you vote on the poll yet?

Don't forget the War On Science: http://www.wired.com/magazine/2009/10/ff_waronscience/

"The bottom line: Pseudo-science preys on well-intentioned people who, motivated by love for their kids, become vulnerable to one of the world’s oldest professions. Enter the snake-oil salesman."

For those who worry kids get too many vaccines at once:

"What was the maximum number of vaccines that a person could handle? The point was to arm doctors with information that could reassure parents. Offit set out to determine two factors: how many B cells, which make antibodies, a person has in a milliliter of blood and how many different epitopes, the part of a bacterium or virus that is recognized by the immune system, there are in a vaccine. Then, he came up with a rough estimate: a person could handle 100,000 vaccines — or up to 10,000 vaccines at once. Currently the most vaccines children receive at any one time is five." No one is ever going to get 10,000 vaccines at once, but the point is that it could happen safely.

It's a long read, but totally worth it.

From the New England Journal of Medicine: http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/short/347/19/1477

A Population-Based Study of Measles, Mumps, and Rubella Vaccination and Autism

Kreesten Meldgaard Madsen, M.D., Anders Hviid, M.Sc., Mogens Vestergaard, M.D., Diana Schendel, Ph.D., Jan Wohlfahrt, M.Sc., Poul Thorsen, M.D., Jørn Olsen, M.D., and Mads Melbye, M.D.

ABSTRACT

Background It has been suggested that vaccination against measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) is a cause of autism.

Methods We conducted a retrospective cohort study of all children born in Denmark from January 1991 through December 1998. The cohort was selected on the basis of data from the Danish Civil Registration System, which assigns a unique identification number to every live-born infant and new resident in Denmark. MMR-vaccination status was obtained from the Danish National Board of Health. Information on the children's autism status was obtained from the Danish Psychiatric Central Register, which contains information on all diagnoses received by patients in psychiatric hospitals and outpatient clinics in Denmark. We obtained information on potential confounders from the Danish Medical Birth Registry, the National Hospital Registry, and Statistics Denmark.

Results Of the 537,303 children in the cohort (representing 2,129,864 person-years), 440,655 (82.0 percent) had received the MMR vaccine. We identified 316 children with a diagnosis of autistic disorder and 422 with a diagnosis of other autistic-spectrum disorders. After adjustment for potential confounders, the relative risk of autistic disorder in the group of vaccinated children, as compared with the unvaccinated group, was 0.92 (95 percent confidence interval, 0.68 to 1.24), and the relative risk of another autistic-spectrum disorder was 0.83 (95 percent confidence interval, 0.65 to 1.07). There was no association between the age at the time of vaccination, the time since vaccination, or the date of vaccination and the development of autistic disorder.

Conclusions This study provides strong evidence against the hypothesis that MMR vaccination causes autism.

BigMike & politicalsky,

I understand wanting to know who funded the studies so that you can judge if there is a conflict of interest.

However, who do you trust to fund studies? It seems that you do not trust funding by government or pharmaceutical companies. Who is left with the money to pay researchers? If your answer is the "vaccinines cause autism" crowd, how can any rational scientist accept such research when they have the conclusion in mind before starting to study the problem? Also, do they have the money and resources for large studies?

Research needs to be as unbiased as possible. Which is why many studies are conducted to see if results can be replicated by others. Many studies, funded by various sources, have found no link between MMR vaccine and autism AND no link between thimersol and autism. In addition, researchers who tried to replicate Wakefield's conclusions could not do so.

Because there is no evidence of a causal link between autism and vaccines, wouldn't the time and money for autism research be better spent studying other hypotheses? Don't you want to know the actual cause and maybe find a cure/treatment for autism? I don't understand sticking to a belief in a disproven theory when the cause of autism is still waiting to be found.

kash,

"Then, he came up with a rough estimate: a person could handle 100,000 vaccines — or up to 10,000 vaccines at once. Currently the most vaccines children receive at any one time is five."

Hmmm. A rough estimate huh? Yea, I don't think so. "Almost" only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. Not testing his THEORY out any time soon. My guess, you wouldn't do it either, on a "guesstimate". Offit sure enjoys hearing himself speak. Apparently, you hang on every word.

Second part, Currently the most vaccines children receive at any one time is five.

Not so fast there Tonto. Why did Hanna Poling receive 9? Why did my son receive 11? Why does the schedule now call for 8 in one day for a 2 month old baby? Riddle me that. There are many children getting more than 5 at a time. So, was Offit lying or is it you?

Does anyone have any stats on the Amish?

I read an article years ago about the big flaw claimed by the medical community in the idea that ASDs were linked to thimerosal: no sizeable control group because "all kids" were immunized.

The article mentioned that the Amish, who get an exception to immunization requirements in many areas, would solve that issue and that someone had actually found a much lower incidence of ASD's in the Amish community, with the exceptions being kids who were adopted from outside the Amish community and those living in areas with high mercury levels.

I'm not for avoiding immunizations altogether, but I do have an issue with the runaround I was put through by government agencies I called with questions, who approved a chemical be included in vaccines that had been found unsuitable for veterinary use, and dismissed any questions without any explanation at all.

@ thetan

The words "those never vaccinated" in the Taylor et al study (1999) don't mean what you think they mean. They refer to children who'd never received the MMR vaccine, not children who'd never been vaccinated.

So you would gladly trade your son's autism for death, brain damage, deafness and infertility would you? The things I have listed are all caused by measles. I think people have forgotten the harsh reality of diseases that we don't see much of any more thanks to vaccinations.

Autism is not a death sentence. I'm an autistic adult and I am saddened that you would rather your son risked dying than living life on the spectrum.

Riayn,

I'm glad you are able to lead a full life and able to participate in society. However, not everyone diagnosed with autism can say the same. Would you trade your "autism" for my friend's son? At 14 he was still in diapers, severely self-mutalating, non-verbal and suffered from seizures. Some people with autism, if they could speak, might not declare that "Autism is not a death sentence".

Because your experience with autism has taken you down one path does that mean that parents should just ignore those who have travelled down a different, more difficult path? I don't understand how you can act as if those on the severe end don't exist or that they don't matter? Isn't the severe end of the spectrum just a harsh a reality too? Should it be ignored?

Unfortunately it's not just your son your are putting at risk - it is everyone other child as well. Vaccines work by herd immunity. You are putting people at risk who are too young to get the vaccines or who the vaccines did not provide immunity to.

Shelley, I never ever said that individuals who are non-verbal and/or low-functioning do not matter or that they don't exist. Where in my comment did I say that? I believe that every individual with autism is important and they matter and that it is the responsibily of those of us who are higher functioning to advocate for them and their families to get the services they need.

What I did say in my comment is that vaccines do not cause autism.

Yeah, herd immunity (like the cattle the big pharmaceutical companies want us to be). Why don't they provide immunity to everyone who gets it? If you say it doesn't always work to protect, then we can say it doesn't always work without severe reactions. If you think the pharm companies don't have big influence, then you are narrow minded. It's simple, if vaccines prevent a disease, then it shouldn't matter if those around you have it.

Why require a signed waiver prior to having ones child vaccinated? Fear of financial retaliation.

So, vaccines don't work 100% of the time. Let me ask, when was the last time you met someone under the age of 70 who had contracted polio (at least in the US)? How about smallpox? Small pox often killed, polio almost always maimed and often killed. These diseases did not just disappear on their own. They were quickly erradicated (in only a few short years) when large scale vaccinations were begun.

If a parent is not "informed," they flat out didn't bother to read the forms they signed prior to their child being vaccinated. YOU are responsible for reading the material, not the infant. I sat in my doctor's office for almost an hour reading (7 yrs ago) before I signed the consent to vaccinated my child.

Stop blaming others for the fact that you simply did not take the time to read.

http://www.examiner.com/x-3565-Autism--Parenting-Examiner~y2009m6d15-Parents-of-two-autistic-sons-vaccinated-one-but-not-the-other

Still believe? They are only now finding pesticides have links to ADHD, when are we going to get out of the Vaccine Rut and look at other causes of Autism? Twenty Years ago we used far fewer pesticides and chemicals in the common house.

Amanda,

Diagnostic substitution explains the feeling that there is an increase in autism these days:

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/117/4/1028

There is not actually an increase in cases of autism spectum disorders.

I read through your link Sciencenotfear. I have a couple things with it though. For Asperger's Syndrome you cannot have MR as a diagnosis according to the DSM. So this would not account for the rise in higher functioning children with Autism. And many Higher Functioning kids also have a Comorbid diagnosis for other learning disabilities such as dysgraphia, dysphagia, dyslexia, auditory processing disroder, and many others. So the incidence of other learning disabilities should be on the rise too. I know they are in my state!

Asperger's Syndrome is nearly always a misdiagnosis of Autistic Disorder, given because parents are more comfortable with a diagnosis that is not associated with MR. A substantial fraction of people with Autistic Disorder are MR, but by no means all. My son is quite bright and is diagnosed with Autistic Disorder. There is no way he would have been diagnosed 30 years ago, because they weren't diagnosing kids like him at that time.

Dysphagia is a swallowing disorder. You may have meant dysphasia, which is an acquired language disorder. Again without a doubt the evidence points to the FACT that autism is NOT caused by vaccines. In fact autism has a genetic component and many parents with HFA (high-functioning autism) have children with ASD and many parents are being diagnosed with HFA/ASD after their child gets the diagnosis. Autism is not a disease of the gut so I'm so sick of hearing that immediately following X "gut problems" appeared, as if gastrointestinal disorders were part of the DSM criteria for autism. Autism is a neurodevelopmental disorder affecting social cognition and pragmatics. It may be comorbid with many other disorders but is a social language disorder. Many children with autism used to be diagnosed with schizophrenia but diagnostic criteria have changed which is why there is such an influx in autism diagnoses. I know several adults and young adults who clearly are on the spectrum but do not have a diagnosis because 20-30 years ago autism wasn't diagnosed like it is now. You can all keep screaming that vaccines cause autism which has ruined your child's life but what I say is we should be very damn thankful to have individuals with autism because they are many of the ones who are our best scientists and innovators. As for an influx in learning disabilities, again it comes down to diagnostic criteria and mainstreaming schools. All children are mainstreamed in today's public schools and there is a huge range of individuals that function at all different levels. Let's also consider what a joke public education is these days. If we had effective schools we might not see such devastating effects of learning disabilities.

Actually according to the DSM the criteria for autism is a language delay. For Aspergers's there isn't a speech delay. So unless the parents don't remember if their child has a delay then there isn't room for a misdiagnosis. The criteria is pretty strict for Autism and Aspergers's. PDD the amazing diagnosis all others get is actually the section of the DSM that fits all Autism Spectrum Disorders. I have one with Asperger's and one with Autism. The difference was there from early on. The only difference is one got intervention earlier than the other. As for MR neither of my children test in that range.

Amanda, this is a non-sequitur. A link between pesticides and ADHD has nothing to do with vaccines or autism. As compelling as I'm sure it sounds to you, this is a completely nonsensical argument.

Actually, Harris-there may very well be a link. A new theory has emerged regarding a cause of autism-synthetic chemicals that are used in everything from pesticides to nail polishes, lotions, house cleaners and the list goes on. The facts are, there are over 75,000 man made chemicals and very, very few have been tested for safety. If these chemicals may cause ADHD-what else can they cause?

I agree there is no link between autism and vaccines-studies have been done. If people want to blindly follow Mr. Wakefield and ignore all of the other good research that has been done, they are being unwise. Anyone truly interested in discovering the cause behind this disorder that is devastating more and more of our children, will broaden their horizons.

There is a very good PBS documentary done by Bill Moyers called "Trade Secrets" regarding the chemicals in our enviroment, past and present, if anyone is interested.

I see your point that there is NO cure, but do you see my point in where my son was developing normally until the MMR vaccine? There are facts that should not be dismissed by just saying "there is no cure". There is more help now for kids with ASD than back in the day, BUT many more children are diagnosed and many more insurance companies are unwilling to cover the costs! SO the burden is put on us, when in fact the vaccine companies should be paying for all this stuff.

I had to quit working, had to eliminate costs just to help support my son's needs. Why are insurance companies willing to cover every pediatrician visit, but when I take my son to a DAN! dr, NOTHING is covered. Why are people SO CLOSED MINDED to helping these kids heal from the inside out, such as gut damage.... instead they insist no cure and push these kids to the side. MY CHILD IS VACCINE INJURED AND I'm NOT GIVING UP anytime soon!

I am a parent of a child diagnosed on the spectrum. My child did not suffer severe regression after a vaccination, instead he plateaued and had small tiny regressions. Not all autism is the same. Some children may have a clear genetic factor, such as a dual diagnosis, or a type of Aspergers that is genius, or the genetic remainder that is the result of societal genius. Others may have a genetic predisposition which is triggered by an environmental factor, such as a mito disorder triggered by a vaccine induced fever. Others may have an impaired ability to detoxify all the chemicals and such that have saturated our modern environment, including the adjuvants in vaccines, which are directly injected into children. Others may have pieces of vaccine strain measles virus in their intestines/bowels that produce autistic symptoms. There are countless possibilities for classifying sub-types of autism. Many of those subtypes include children who ARE physically ill, and in need of a physical "cure", in need of treatment for physical illness. Many individuals are typically healthy, as healthy as many other modern individuals, but could benefit from a more healthful lifestyle anyway. I can appreciate the call for neurodiversity as much as I appreciate the call for biomedical treatment, each are necessary for the population they serve. While those populations are different, they are not mutually exclusive.

"Others may have pieces of vaccine strain measles virus in their intestines/bowels that produce autistic symptoms". Autism is NOT a disease of the gut. Diagnostic criteria have NOTHING to do with gastrointestinal disorders. Autism IS a neurodevelopmental (neuro meaning brain) disorder of social cognition/language/communication. Autism is due to abnormalities in the brain and how the brain functions in response to social stimuli. Viruses in the bowels are in no way connected to brain functioning.The fact that you folks continue to say this shows your ignorance on the topic. Please explain how bowel/intestine problems produce social communication difficulties?

There are many doctors who would argue with you on this. They have diagnosed intestinal dysfunction and after treating that have seen positive changes neurologically. The gut and brain ARE connected as these doctors are proving. Autism is not just a neurodevelopmental disorder of social cognition/language/communication. That is what manifests or presents from underlying organ/body system dysfunction. There are real physical issues on a grand scale and once they are diagnosed and treated the patients improve to some degree ... some completely recover. You cannot box autism up into strictly a brain disorder. It is so much more than that.

Much of the research that is happening now is to study how to best help these children-to discover what methods work best.

People will always ask the question "why" and I don't think it is a bad question. Asking "why" may someday help us to prevent autism, or to at least lower the risk.

Autism is not just a neurodevelopmental disorder of social cognition/language/communication

Autism is a social communication disorder. Check the DSM-IV. The criteria for diagnosing autism is as follows:

(I) A total of six (or more) items from (A), (B), and (C), with at least two from (A), and one each from (B) and (C)

• 1. marked impairments in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviors such as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body posture, and gestures to regulate social interaction
  2. failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level
  3. a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interests, or achievements with other people, (e.g., by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people)
  4. lack of social or emotional reciprocity ( note: in the description, it gives the following as examples: not actively participating in simple social play or games, preferring solitary activities, or involving others in activities only as tools or "mechanical" aids )
  
  1. delay in, or total lack of, the development of spoken language (not accompanied by an attempt to compensate through alternative modes of communication such as gesture or mime)
  2. in individuals with adequate speech, marked impairment in the ability to initiate or sustain a conversation with others
  3. stereotyped and repetitive use of language or idiosyncratic language
  4. lack of varied, spontaneous make-believe play or social imitative play appropriate to developmental level
  
  1. encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus
  2. apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines or rituals
  3. stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (e.g hand or finger flapping or twisting, or complex whole-body movements)
  4. persistent preoccupation with parts of objects
  

(A) qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following:
(B) qualitative impairments in communication as manifested by at least one of the following: (C) restricted repetitive and stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests and activities, as manifested by at least two of the following:

(II) Delays or abnormal functioning in at least one of the following areas, with onset prior to age 3 years:

(A) social interaction
(B) language as used in social communication
(C) symbolic or imaginative play

(III) The disturbance is not better accounted for by Rett's Disorder or Childhood Disintegrative Disorder

It is NOT a gut disorder. Provide for me the evidence that shows how the bowels are directly connected to how the brain functions. The gut does not cause brain dysfunction but brain dysfunction may cause bowel dysfunction. I would imagine that if a child did have intestinal/digestional difficulties they would struggle more in day to day life due to continued discomfort but that does not make mean your bowels affect your brain directly. You may be correct that some children with autism have other physiological dysfunction, but many do not, as well many neurotypical children have physiological dysfunction of the gastrointestinal tract (e.g., IBS). "Gut" problems are not a symptom of autism and are not part of the criteria for diagnosing it. Dealing with gastrointestinal discomfort, as I stated above, may affect daily function as the child is no longer in constant discomfort but you cannot recover from autism. There is no cure. You can learn life skills and strategies to cope with your social communication difficulties but get it out of your head that it can be cured.

What about the GUT ISSUES That my son now is faced with. IS THERE AN EXPLANATION FOR THAT!!!????!!!!! Do you have a child with "regressive autism". Please don't speak unless you have experienced it!

Autism is a set of behaviors. There are many causes for it. Period. I agree that vaccine injury could be one of them. Apparently the Supreme Court does too. Don't tell me Hannah Poling doesn't have "autism" because she has mito disease. AGAIN, autism is defined as a set of behaviors. See the DSM IV. Your set of behaviors can be caused by mito disease, can be caused by Fragile X, by brian injury, by vaccine injury, by lead poisoning and on and on. Autism is basically the catch-all dx of behaviors until the root cause of the autism is discovered.... then the doctors change the diagnosis to accurately reflect the cause.

My kids are on the spectrum. They did not have regressive autism. Instead I believe their behaviors to be linked to a metabolic imbalance. (MTHFR mutation)

This mutation has been a co-morbidity with many psychological problems, including OCD, depression, and schizophrenia. It is not a far leap to include autism. By the way, they are finding this mutation in MANY children dx'd with autism. If your child hasn't been tested yet, please consider it. It can be done by Laborp or Quest and insurance should cover it.

Peace and recovery wishes to all the affected children, no matter what therapy you choose, or what you believe the cause to be.

According to the DSM you have to rule out Childhood Onset Schizophrenia before making an Autism Diagnosis. I know this because my degree is in Psychology.

Hey Tom. Sorry bud, when you see you're son's smile taken away at 18 mts, and all your hope and dreams vanish, maybe you can really have the balls to say "Autism is NOT CAUSED by vaccines".

Or maybe you can have the courage not to be grasping at straws and blaming things that aren't to blame

No on can say that there is not a link between autism and vaccinations. There is no definitive proof either way. To say there is NO link is making a huge assumption. No one can rule it out at this point in time because not enough research and evidence has been done on both sides of the issue. Parents need the to be informed of the possible link and make choices for themselves on how to treat their children. I have twins. My daughter is typical while my son has been diagnosed with autism. They both had the MMR and are current on their vaccinations. IF I knew then what I knew now I would have not given the MMR to either child. I believe that there are many genetic and environmental links and I think it is ignorant to rule out anything. Autism is a epidemic in our country and we need to push for more research. OUr children deserve it. My husband is a physician and not "All doctors" are for vaccinations. There are those, like my husband, who are are educating themselves about the link between them and cannot deny the overwhelming evidence that a link does exist.

Please provide the evidence. Anecdotes do not count as evidence. Above we were provided with several scientific studies that show NO link. Provide the scientific studies that do show a link. Please.

"not enough research and evidence has been done"

Really? Did you see the SHORT list of studies above? Where vaccination rates have dropped, autism rates have not. Where mercury and thimerasol were removed years ago, no drop has occurred. ALL reliable evidence points to NO CAUSAL LINK.

Since you husband is a physician (what specialty) he should have access to descriptions and statistics from BEFORE vaccines...see what it was like then. Unfortunately, your husband has an emotional reason for seeing a link, so he may, like many, ignore evidence/give greater credence to confirming evidence/set unequal standards. Science tries to account for this bias, hence the safeguards and repetition.

One flawed study by Wakefield with an obvious conflict of interest and profiting from it that shows a link.

Hundreds of studies by both industry and independent university researchers fail to find any correlation/ back up his claim.

We've wasted tons of money looking for the link that isn't there. The money would have been better spent on looking for other possible links/causes.

BTW - despite not finding a link, they don't even use mercury in most vaccines any more and there is no decrease in autism rates.

I notice the word most. It is still in the Flu vaccines, and in the RhoGam that is given to Rh- women while pregnant. If the mother is lucky she has 2 doses. If not 3 or more. The levels of thimerisol in the vaccines according to the FDA is about 50% mercury for weight. So it still exists. I am sure it is still in other vaccines. 2 babies with Autism is enough for me. None of my children will have more vaccines. Why don't we discuss why titers are not drawn routinely? They were drawn for me because of my request and refusal to vaccinate. He was high meaning he was immune. So if he was immune already why did he need 4 more vaccines 3 containing more than one virus? I think if these were offered more routinly parents wouldn't be so on edge because doctors would be giving them knowledge, and not excuses from the drug companies.

The mercury used in thimerosal is metabolized into ETHYLmercury, which is expelled from the body at a much higher rate (11x) than METHYLmercury (on which we had based our exposure levels) so the numbers are VERY conservative. At prior levels, mercury from vaccines was no more than exposure from natural sources (such as water or breast milk) and was the much more quickly cleared ETHYLmercury.

BTW: For many years mothers used MERCURICROME or MERTHIOLATE on wounds...which is the same thing as Thimerosal (until forced to show safety and they chose to withdraw it rather than pay for studies). Shouldn't the autism rates have been HIGHER back then?

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!! Exactly! If my child had autism from 'birth', lets say. Then why is he improving JUST A YEAR after his diagnosis. I wish I had videos of him from last summer! Thank you for sharing your story!

PittsburghDad;

Have you looked into PANDAS? The onset of Autism at 15 months seem early, but not impossible. PANDAS is very often missed and the patient is dismissed as Autistic. The characteristics are very similiar. There are specialists at CHOP (Children's Hospital of Philadelphia) that are the real experts in PANDAS.

Tom

@PittsburghDad this is my son's story exactly. Coincidence? I think not. Wake up people. Take a look at who funds these "studies" and whose advertising dollars are keeping these network bobbleheads on the air......big pharma, that's who!

Tom, while no doubt trying to be helpful, you missed the point. PittsburghDad said his son had a brain injury following the simultaneous administration of three vaccines, containing SEVEN antigens including 3 or 4 live viruses, while his son was sick and on antibiotics. Reports of regression following vaccines are extremely common, and many of the VAERS reports you can access online demonstrate that many of those suffering vaccine adverse reactions were given multiple vaccines at once. The genetics crowd has been saying they can recognize symptoms in infants as young as 6 months old. Under the current CDC vaccine schedule, an infant has received 24 vaccines by 6 months; 34 by 15 months. Back in 1983, the schedule was 11 by 6 months; 14 by 15 months.

Wakeman's studies were also funded by big companies, and he stood to gain quite a bit himself with patenting an altenate vaccine just before his study came out.

Pittsburghdad: I am happy for your son and your family. Unfortunately, many children with autism don't have the same outcome. The medical community needs to do more research and find out the cause or causes? I have a 13 year old with autism, and I am afraid that he may not be a contributing member to the society. Will you please share what therapies and diet in particular worked for your son.

I don't mean to make you feel bad, but why on earth would YOU allow your child to be vaccinated when he was sick and on antibiotics? As a nurse I would have flat out refused to give those vaccines to your child. I wouldn't ever give a child a live vaccine when sick or on antibiotics, nor would I give the routine vaccination or the flu shot.The reson being that you have many things going on with a sick child that may affect the immune response the body has following vaccination, meaning possible decreased effectiveness. As parents we have to be advocates for our children. My son was born in 1999, one year after the infamous Wakeman sudy, and when getting him immunized, we went at a slower pace, not as many at once, and he got his MMR at his 2 year visit. I drove my nurses and doctors nuts with all my questions and contant requests for the most up to date information. But that was my personal decision, I did what I felt like I needed to do to best protect my child at the time. He is fully vaccinated and I believe that vaccines are our best tool in protecting our kids, but then as a nurse I have witnessed first hand the agony of parents who refuse to vaccinate and then lose their child to a disease that they should have vaccinated against. Also on a off note, thimerisol is not in the childhood vaccines we carry at our facility, we only carry the preservative free-thimerisol free vaccine for flu. Again we as parents have to ask these questions, we have to stand up and tell our doctors what we want. Tell your provider you want thimerisol free vaccine, tell them you will not vacinate if your child is sick or on medication, tell them you will bring your child back when thay are well. Ask them what the vaccine is for, can you split up the vaccines. At the end of the day, you have the right to refuse any and all services from you medical provider, but you need to be the one who speaks up. We also need to look at where our kids toys are from, Notice everything is made in CHINA, they do not have the same standards as we do for lead or other heavy metals. Think about where a 15 month old put the toys, in the mouth. Again, just giving some info, and thank god your child is doing better now.

My son was tested for Fragile X- it came back neg. I agree the term "autism" needs to be looked into further. I do believe my son has autism, only because of all the stuff that is in his body causing him to have autism-like symtoms. That is why these children are "recovered".

Exactly Carol - Each person must be treated as an individual . Just because my child meets the "Behavioral" definitions for the autism label doesn't mean the pathway to brain damage was the same. Treatments or studies of our different kids must account and document their biological and other cellular differences~!

I hope Matt Lauer will read and reference the AAP's recently published guidelines on Gastrointestinal disease and Autism. There are many conditions which must be properly researched and documented when determining treatment - and even then - treatment outcomes will vary based on the individual.

Each of our children need to be appropriately screened.

Treatments need to be developed.

Research needs to appropriately consider and document the individuals in the study and identify subsets.

Glutamate and glycine are aminoacids. The latter in particular would be a pisspoor choice for a neurotransmitter. They're in all foods. If you want to save kids from those two 'poisons' you'd have to starve them. Much like Christians do when their kids fail to say Grace.

Cute challenging of Naruto there, by the way. I hope you'll forgive me if I believe him before you.

No, don't "believe it" - PROVE IT.

And yet every single investigation into a link between heavy metals and autism has come up negative.

So, you'll believe all the studies showing no link between heavy metals and autism, but you'll disregard all the studies showing no link between vaccinations and autism? Why aren't you screaming for the names of the people who paid for the heavy metal tests? Maybe some giant mining companies paid for them all. Maybe the mining companies are using vaccinations as a red herring!! Your logic is completely astounding.

Who would respecct someone that falsifies their findings, abuses children to get data, and publishes a report that only would lead to his own gain?

Are there adverse reactions to vaccines? Yes.

Do some people die from vaccines? Yes.

BUT the rates of the above are MUCH (1/100, 1/1000 or less) MUCH less than the rates of death and complications from the diseases they prevent and many times can be avoided all together. THIS IS A FACT.

When less than 85-90% of a population are unvaccinated, "herd immunity" is lost. This means that those who are medically unable to take vaccines are at increased risk for vaccinated diseases. Children have DIED because of the Anti-Vax movement. THIS IS A FACT.

So Michael, how many children should it be ok to sacrifice for the good of the whole? 10?, 100?, 1000? Would you volunteer to have your child sacrificed if millions could be saved?

I have a hard time understanding the tremendous hostility toward those who believe that there could be a link. It has happened in the past, as in the '50's when the polio vaccine was contaminated and the government covered it up. it could happen again. There is simply so much we don't know, so much research still needs to be done but the Pharmas are the only ones with the money and understandably they tend to be "slightly" biased. New research is happening though, although slowly, for instance about retroviruses and how and what triggers their reactivation. Many things can trigger retroviruses to replicate such as flu illnesses, stress, even vaccines (as the researchers are saying. Recently they, retroviruses, have been associated with several cancers, CFS, schizophrenia, multiple sclerosis and possibly autism. My point here is that we need to push for answers, we need to lsiten to all sides, all the information if we are to make progress. There is no she's wrong, he's right black or white here, all the information is important and these parents are telling us something.

BOTH of my children were vaccinated, and if I had any more I would vaccinate them!

BECAUSE *I* recognize that the RISK of a reaction is significantly less than the risks from the diseases the vaccines prevent.

1 death from vaccine vs. 100 deaths from the disease...WHICH WOULD YOU CHOOSE? No one can know beforehand which would be the 1 or the 100...that 1 could even be one of the 100 (and therefore have been dead either way)

The simple fact: it is not a matter of sacrifice, it is a matter of RISK ASSESSMENT, and the problem is people are loudly proclaiming a risk that is not there, leading to bad judgement.

The call for "more research" is a straw man. My limited research database access shows 1347 reasearch papers on autism and vaccines. No links have been shown. ONE researcher, with a FINANCIAL INTEREST who FAKED his data and had his credentials REVOKED and paper WITHDRAWN has launched this whole firestorm. The weight of evidence is fully behind "NO LINK."

I expect we will find a cause to autism, and it may well be environmental...but it will only be done with quality research. The more time we have to spend debunking VOODOO science the longer it will take. And the more children will die because they were not vaccinated.

To turn your question around, how many children do you want to sacrifice on the basis of faked research by a known liar?

Michael,

"The simple fact: it is not a matter of sacrifice, it is a matter of RISK ASSESSMENT..."

I guess it would be for the person that didn't loose a child from a vaccine, right? Can you ask Mrs. Gromowski if she feels better knowing that it was RISK ASSESSMENT that killed her child.

The facts of the issue have been decided for a long time. Wakefield faked his data and lied about the link. Knowing that, and knowing that vaccination rates are down leaving more kids susceptible to diseases that could have been prevented...how should he have acted?

This is not a case of 'we don't know what is going on'. We do know. We know Wakefield is a cheat and he got caught.

So because he abused children to get his findings, it is considered 'passionate pursuit'. And because he stood to gain and got his licence revoked for his corrupt findings we need to 'offer more research'. Bull. Though you may find the stories of people adorably tragic- and they are tragic- they are not proof. There are already so many studies with what is science, not children's stories that not vaccinating is tantmount to child abuse.

Just because there are two (or more) sides does not mean that they are equally valid.

the earth is not flat...and vaccines do not cause autism.

You may "know what happend to your kids" BUT...you don't know what caused it.

I am not ignorant. I am, in fact, a science teacher and HAVE done my own research. Look at the earlier comments for the lists of research.

It is true that badly designed or fraudulent studies (like "Dr." Wakefields!!!!!) can be made to say anything. A conspiracy can be found anywhere, if you really want to find it. The fact is that we live longer, more active, more productive, healthier lives than at any time in history.

While it is true that recent administrations (Reagan, Bush) have stacked scientific groups and re-written/buried reports to toe the party line, there are still many competent, conscientious, and ethical researchers.

I find it exhausting shouting into the wind of ignorance attempting to educate when there are so many more spewing anti-science conspiracy hypotheses.

You just proved my point.

and you mine.

I can only refer you to this book: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1591024080/ref=s9_simh_gw_p14_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=1F63QY7VVMW5HX9RCVEH&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846

...and hope that one day you objectively look at the evidence rather contine to deny anything that contradicts your cherished beliefs.

Yes, this is soo true. Guess who was there for us?????? NOBODY.

Pediatric Nurse-449725 wrote: "Chemicals injected directly into children will NEVER have a good outcome..."

Please turn in your nursing certificate and return to the middle ages.

Antibiotics disprove your statement, in addition to the other drugs (which are CHEMICALS!!!!!!) used to fight the variety of diseses that used to kill many before the age of 2.

By the way: http://eyetricks.com/0101.htm Sometimes what you SEE is NOT what is really there.

http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Believe-Everything-You-Think/dp/1591024080/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1274741893&sr=8-1

I hope Pediatric Nurse doesn't let her kid breath, eat or drink, because doing any of those causes her child to absorb chemicals.

Pediatric Nurse, maybe you should brush up on your definition of chemical, and your knowledge of biology.

For example your quote, "Chemicals given to fetuses via a pregnant mom is obviously going to weaken the immune system of both" However IgG can be considered a chemical capable of crossing the placenta during pregnancy. This is usually considered good, as IgG as an antibody can therefore protect the fetus.

As for chemicals being injected directly into a kid will never having a good outcome, I'm pretty sure a kid with Anaphylaxis would appreciate being injected with adrenaline.

If my child were severely dehydrated, we'd all be grateful for the saline drip that he might get. Saline is, after all, just a chemical.

States mandate them because vaccinations require "herd immunity". Almost the entire population must be vaxed so that diseases cannot spread. just look at the numbers of diseases coming back and killing because of people buying in to the anti-vax crap. Whooping cough is becoming a killer again. A family in Australia was anti-vax, their daughter contracted pertussis and died. Now, they are some of the most vocal proponents of vaccines.

And what about the other families in Aus who had the flu vax and all their kids had such shocking reactions they needed hospitilization. Why do we use our most vulnerable members of society as guinea pigs? There is a time and place for vaccinations, surely we can spread them out over 12 years, rather than stick them multiply times before they even turn 2.

I agree that the problem is probably giving too much at a time. I realize the vaccines have controlled dreaded diseases, but I don't think the babies are given time for their bodies to develop before getting them. Some people are just more vulnerable. My husband had to retire early because his hand became deformed and won't function. He has been told he has nerve damage. An internist, rheumatologist, neorologist and hand surgeon have not been able to tell him what caused the damage. We believe it was taking megadoses of folic acid, vitamin B6 and vitamin B12 which he was prescribed for his heart. Will a doctor admit that could have caused it? No, but if you research the drugs, and overdose of vitamin B6 can cause nerve damage of the extremitites. He had no problem until taking the drugs. In fact he was still playing softball at 58 years old and racing motorcycles. Some people's bodies just can't process massive doses.

"If vaccines are so safe and wonderful, why do states have to mandate them?..."

Because people are stupid and will gleefully do stupid things.

My son is a cardiac patient, one evening, a kid showed up in the PICU isolation room. Whooping cough.

A couple of days later, his parents were in the waiting rom at shift change, mentioned that they didn't vaccinate. and oh yeah, the kid they brought in with them was showing the same symptoms, so they were thinking about asking the docs to look at him.

All this in hospital enviroment with sick babies who were not only unvaccinated, most had never been home. AND, there was an infant twin to one of the patients present.

I immediately went and interrupted the head of the PICU's turnover and told them that whooping cough kid had a potentially sick sibling out there.

Those people were immediately removed to isolation and measures were taken to monitor the exposed and unprotected.

Like I said, Stupid.

Identifying & Avoiding Autism cults, this time with a link! :)

http://www.blogher.com/identifying-and-avoiding-autism-cults

Um, just curious which "big vaccines" you are referring to? Hep B on the day of birth, like the one that killed Ian Gromowski due to a yeast allergy? The other 23 vaccines babies get by age 6 months? The MMR at 12 months, like the one that caused Bailey Banks' injuries that were compensated by the government? Or the nine vaccines that Hannah Poling received at age 19 months (Hib, IPV, MMR, VAR, and DTaP) that resulted in HHS conceding that the vaccines led to her autism? HHS has used semantics to hide the fact that these injuries are real and have been compensated. "ADEM", "autism-like symptoms", and "autism" all have the same functional endpoint. Parents who see their child hit by a truck might reasonably conclude the accident is responsible for their broken bones. So to with vaccine injury. Parents who notice a child's regression into silence, self-injury, seizures or gastrointestinal disorders following vaccination are equally sane.

Thank you for providing such a great example of the kind of emotional trap-laying I described.

Each child who experienced an adverse vaccine reaction is a tragedy. But not one of those cases are related to autism. Not one.

You mentioned getting hit by a truck. Car accidents claim far more lives than vaccines (by several orders of magnitude), vaccines save far more lives than they claim. Readers should keep this in mind.

Shannon Rosa - so what do you have to say about the Hannah Poling case??? I really think you should stop saying that there are no cases of vaccines causing Autism. It really is diminishing your credibility.

Also, just curious what you have to say about Dr. Mayer Eisenstein's practice of over 30,000 patients who are either unvaccinated or minimally vaccinated and ZERO cases of Autism? No emotion here. Only the facts.

Hannah Poling does not have autism.

"Poling had a rare genetic mitochondrial disease that may have been exacerbated by a series of vaccines that she had, after which, among many other problems, Hannah regressed and developed some autism-like symptoms and then months later a seizure disorder. Instantly, it was being trumpeted all over the Internet, blogosphere, and media that the government had “admitted” that vaccines cause autism."

from http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=66

Dr. Mayer Eisenstein's practice is an excellent example of coincidence rather than causation. You could say the same thing about any population with the shared characteristic of "ZERO cases of autism." It might be a fact, but it's not evidence, and it doesn't prove anything.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/704479/correlation_vs_causation_differences.html

Shannon Rosa,

Love your blog. I'm waiting for the chance to give your book a good read!

That said, I agree with what you have to say above. One lesson in the statistics is the high number of DPT injuries compensated. Those cases were decided before the science was complete--and we now know that the DPT was not responsible for most of those injuries.

That is how the court works--give benefit of the doubt to the injured without waiting for the definitive science.

Even with that low bar to overcome, Mr. Wakefield's theories did not even come close to being convincing. Three test cases were heard with the top experts on both sides. The idea that the MMR causes autism by the method MR. Wakefield claimed is just wrong.

Dr. Mayer Eisenstein's practice is an excellent example of coincidence rather than causation. You could say the same thing about any population with the shared characteristic of "ZERO cases of autism." It might be a fact, but it's not evidence, and it doesn't prove anything

"Might" be a fact. Might. This isn't a fact. This is an assertion by Dr. Eisenstien, whose business depends on his reputation.

By the way, even Dr. Eisenstein doesn't claim "zero". So, whoever put that forward wasn't stating "facts" at all.

Regarding Hannah Poling: Call it Autism or Autism like behaviors...all that matters is that she WAS damaged by the vaccines and was compensated because of it. It is estimated that 7-30% of kids with ASD have mitochondrial disorders. Furthermore Julie Gerberding (former director of CDC, now head of Merck's vaccine division- nice revolving door!) told CNN’s Dr. Sanjay Gupta that, “If a child was immunized, got a fever, had other complications from the vaccines, and (is) pre-disposed with the mitochondrial disorder, it can certainly set off some damage…. Some of these symptoms can be symptoms that have characteristics of autism. I think we have to have an open mind about this.”

Regarding Dr. Mayer Eisenstein... that is quite the coincidence, wouldn't you say? According to the current Autism rates he should have HUNDREDS of cases of Autism but does not have even one!

Parents are tired having the the "it's just a coincidence" shoved down their throats. Thankfully many doctors are realizing (after seeing hundreds and hundreds of cases of children regressing into Autism after vaccination) that Autism after vaccination cannot simply be called "coincidence". For one pediatricians perspective and findings as he researched vaccines further, click here:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/11/14/Expert-Pediatrician-Exposes-Vaccine-Myths.aspx

Some other respected doctors who question vaccines:

Dr. Jay Gordon, Dr. Sears, Dr. Harold Buttrum, Dr. Alexander Kotok, Dr. Lawrence Palevsky, Dr. Juan Manuel Martinez Mendez, Dr. Kris Gaublomme, Dr. Suzanne Humphries, Dr. Sherri Tenpenney, Dr. Boyd Haley, Dr. Mercola, Dr. Stephanie Cave, Dr. Aviva Jill Romm, the late Robert S. Mendelsohn, Dr Gerhard Buchwald, Dr. Isaac Golden, Dr. Jennifer Craig, Dr. Tenison Deane and more.

Doctors reading this... you took an oath to first do no harm. Please look further into vaccines and push for better safety, better studies (some with real placebos -not another vaccine!), and studies of our vaccine program as a whole. Oh and don't you think we should test vaccines for their potential to cause cancer? Every single vaccine insert states it has not been tested for their carcinogenic potential. The gold standard of science which is double blind placebo controlled studies do not exist when it comes to vaccines and the reasons have become obvious to me - vaccines do cause injury and do deteriorate health. The growing number of children unvaccinated with amazing health will be the proof of this. It is just sad that it will take at least 10 more years and in the meantime our children will continue to be diagnosed with chronic lifelong conditions such as autism, diabetes, allergies, asthma, and other autoimmune disorders.

Educate before you vaccinate!

nvic.org

homefirst.com (where you can listen to archived vaccine webinars)

lifehealthchoices.org

Over 100 books on vaccination:

http://vactruth.com/vaccine-books/

Any of Dr. Eisenstein's patients that have Autism...came to him with Autism. The patients who were born with him or were with him from the beginning and did not get vaccinated (or were vaccinated later) do not have Autism. He also has so few cases of Asthma that Blue Cross called to find out what was going on in his practice. Reputations are built on honesty and integrity... lying would ruin his reputation and his business, but you are free to believe whatever you want.

Melanie, citing Dr. Mercola in a debate is crazy. He sells cookware on his website. A modern day snake oil salesman.

If in the future there is a test to identify the few children with genetic disorders that make vaccinations unsafe *for them*, then those same children will need the cooperation of the rest of the population to keep them safe from the diseases that made child mortality so high in the past. These diseases spread like wildfire. Vaccines are the reason why so many children reach their 5th birthdays without brain damage, the need for iron lungs, and braces for limbs that no longer work. As demonstrated in cases where unvaccinated children spread illness in schools and pediatricians' offices, better hygiene alone is not enough. We should not allow injury and disease to become the norm again just because today's parents are too young to remember burying half of their children. If you think rates of autism are bad, try life up until the middle of the 20th century.

"Any of Dr. Eisenstein's patients that have Autism...came to him with Autism."

Interesting--if you can back that up with some data. As far as I can see, there is no data on Dr. Eisenstien's patients. Just his own comments.

Here is a scenario to consider--A family works with Dr. Eisenstein with the expectation that they will not have any autistic children. When their child is diagnosed, they realize that Dr. Eisenstein's ideas are not accurate and they leave his practice.

That scenario would result in low or zero autism cases in his clinic.

Looks like Sullivan's got it covered, with thanks for pointing out how silly of me it was to take Melanie's Eisenstein statement at face value.

I was one of the parents who was convinced that vaccines caused my son to regress into autism. But I wanted my theory evaluated. So I enrolled my son in an "autism & regression" study at the MIND Institute. The researchers and I pored over hours of home video as well as my photos and personal diaries, juxtaposed with vaccination records. But you know what? My son didn't regress. Instead, his developmental issues started to manifest around 15 months. This is not every child with autism's story, but it something families really need to investigate - and you don't need to backing of one of the nation's biggest autism research institutes to do it, just records & objectivity.

Doctors absolutely take an oath to do no harm. But how they interpret that oath varies. For every doctor listed above, parents will find thousands for whom the "do no harm" oath means either refusing to treat unvaccinated patients because of the risk to public health and their other patients; or accommodating patients on modified vaccine schedules -- NOT because doctors think a modified schedule is a good idea, but because they believe some vaccinations are better than none at all.

There is no scientific proof that shows vaccines saved us from disease. Not to mention that even in highly vaccinated populations diseases such as pertussis and measles continue to affect those who have been vaccinated. These charts show good examples of this:

http://genesgreenbook.com/content/proof-vaccines-didnt-save-us

It is a personal right to decide what goes into our bodies and the bodies of our children. It is a personal right to choose what risk we are or are not willing to take.

Vaccines have not been properly studied in relation to whether or not they cause Autism. We cannot study one ingredient (Thimerosal) and one vaccine (MMR) and make the claim that vaccines do not cause Autism (which is what the epidemiological studies used in the media try to use to convince the public). Examine the studies for yourself to learn more about these studies such as biases of these studies as well as why they prove nothing:

fourteenstudies.org

Parents are not asking too much in that the appropriate studies SHOULD be conducted. We DO have reason to question our bloated vaccine program, 49 doses of 14 different vaccines by age 6. That is almost triple what I received as a kid. http://www.nvic.org/Downloads/49-Doses-PosterB.aspx

Thankfully NVIC raised more than $100,000 in just 3 days at their 4th international October 2-4 to start a research fund to study the health of the vaccinated versus the unvaccinated and identify those at risk for vaccine injury. In the words of Barbara Loe Fischer head of NVIC, "We are not going to wait any longer for government or industry to answer the big question of whether the nearly 70 doses of 16 vaccines that doctors now give our children between the day of birth and age 18 is contributing to the unexplained chronic disease and disability epidemic that is harming far too many of our children. With 1 child in 6 now learning disabled, 1 in 9 asthmatic, 1 in 100 developing Autism, 1 in 450 diabetic, and millions more suffering with seizures, rheumatoid arthritis, chron's disease, bipolar disorder, and other chronic illness. The National Vaccine Information Center is assembling a group of independent experts from multiple scientific disciplines who will immediately evaluate and act to protect our children's health." Small studies will be conducted as well as a long term 10 year study. To learn more about this historic event or how to make a donation, listen to the video here:

http://www.nvic.org/Events/Vaccine-Conference-2009/overview.aspx

As far as Dr. Eisenstein goes, you can believe what you want, but like I said before, lying wouldn't do much for his reputation. He is probably unable to publish the data due to HIPPA, but he does discuss it here: (This also discusses his asthma rate as well as the lack of Autism in the unvaccinated Amish and homeschooled.)

http://homefirst.com/info-1/vaccine-choice/autism-and-the-homefirst-practice.html

Right. Fourteen studies. So flawed, such an excellent exercise in recognizing "scientific" vs. scientific: http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=459

I would ask readers to be certain to read through as much of this information as they can. Again, best to know both sides of the argument.

Melanie, your behavior of lying about vaccines (you are lying whether you realize it or not because you are spreading mis-information) and (presumably) not vaccinating your own children is causing far greater harm in this world than vaccines. You flat out deny the efficacy of vaccines which is a wretched lie. It is not merely coincidence that major diseases like polio, pertussis, mumps, measles, rubella, small pox, etc. were wiped out immediately after vaccines and vaccine programs were started. In the US, we currently do not have to worry about our children becoming deaf because of complications from the mumps or mental retardation because of complications from the measles or severe deformities because of polio. The reason we don't have to worry about these complications is that the diseases were eradicated in the US by vaccines and a well vaccinated population.

We don't live in a bubble. Measles, mumps, rubella, polio, pertussis, and all the rest exist elsewhere in the world. By making it less likely that other people will vaccinate, you are making it so it is more likely for there to be outbreaks of diseases right here in our back yard. That, in turn, puts the immunocompromised and those that are too young to be vaccinated or those who can't get vaccinated because of allergies at great risk of contracting the diseases.

The vast majority of people will have zero complications from vaccines. Some people will get redness or swelling at the site of the shot. A tiny fraction of people will be allergic to the vaccines and could have serious side effects. There is zero reason to believe that vaccines cause ASD. Zero. A thorough record of the medical history of every single person in Denmark is kept throughout their lives. Researchers have combed through all that data and compared the populations of those who are vaccinated and those who are not vaccinated. They found the EXACT SAME rates of autism in both the vaccinated and un-vaccinated populations. In other words, it is a lie to say that vaccines cause autism.

You are believing in and perpetuating a brain dead conspiracy theory. Unlike other conspiracy theories (e.g. the theory that the US government was involved in JFK's assassination or that the US government was directly involved in 9/11), the conspiracy theory has very real and very dire consequences for other peoples' lives and well being. If you are going to spend time researching the issue, and well you should, do EVERYONE a favor and research the scientific side of the issue as thoroughly as you've researched the un-scientific side. What you will find is a community of doctors and scientists who are deeply concerned with protecting peoples' health. You will find sincere efforts to determine if there is a causal link between autism and vaccines. You will find honest, thorough science that proves beyond any reasonable doubt that vaccines are safe and are effective. Right now you are thoroughly brainwashed by the anti-vax crowd. Do us all a favor and at least TRY to understand the other side of the issue.

Shannon Rosa,

Oh the “science” bloggers… I am so glad you posted a link that will only serve to discredit them and all they write. Seriously, anyone who falls for their ramblings needs a bit of education. I have debated them and they have nothing to say to much of what I have written. They are very good at name calling and skirting around the very good points that people like J.B. Handley have written. When people read BOTH sides, it is obvious to see who is truly evaluating the study and who is just trying to use scientific psychobabble to try and make people feel too dumb to properly evaluate a scientific study. This might work for those who already fall prey to the scare tactics used to get people to vaccinate but not for those of us who actually take the time to read the studies so we can come to an educated decision ourselves.

The science blogger in your link discusses the Denmark study that many use to try and convince parents that vaccines do not cause Autism. It attempts to criticize J.B. Handley’s evaluation of this study that can be found at fourteenstudies.org. The points made do nothing to increase the credibility or methodology of the Denmark study.

The study makes the claim that rates of Autism in Denmark held steady when thimerosal decreased from 400 mg during 1961-1970 to 250 mcg throughout 1971-1992 and that rates increased after thimerosal was taken out of vaccines in 1992. A HUGE problem with this study is their change in methodology – from 1995 on, the researchers included data from outpatient records (which are where 93% of Danish children are diagnosed with autism) which they admit exaggerates incidence of autism. These patients with autism already existed but had never been recorded because they never required hospitalization (prior to 1995, only inpatient cases were reported to the Danish Psychiatric Central Research Register). Mr. Science Blogger (author of the blog you reference) goes onto say that this is no problem because the researchers admit it as well as take the time to look at inpatient data only while still seeing an increase. He proceeds to quote the study, “In additional analyses we examined data using inpatients only. This was done to elucidate the contribution of the outpatient registration to the change in incidence. The same trend with an increase in the incidence rates from 1990 until the end of the study period was seen.”

He conveniently omits that the words printed at the end of this quote: "(data not shown)". Makes one wonder what that data really shows. (If there was indeed an increase, I am guessing it is not much of an increase or they would have included it to support their pre-determined conclusion.) Especially considering the massive conflict of interest in the creation of this study as noted here: (taken directly from J.B. HANDLEY’S ARTICLE HERE http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/03/first-fraud-dr-poul-thorsen-and-the-original-danish-study.html but feel free to dig and verify for yourself)

“Of the seven co-authors of the study, three had received direct funding from the CDC on vaccine-safety related projects. Two of the authors were employees of Statens Serum Institute, a Danish vaccine manufacturer. Here's SSI's Annual Report . Interestingly, page 28 shows that sales of vaccine products to the U.S. were particularly high in 2002. None of these conflicts are mentioned anywhere in the study.

CDC actually wrote a letter to Pediatrics recommending publication of the study.

This letter , written prior to the official date of submission, reveals how involved in the study CDC was (remember, one of their employees was a co-author). Jose Cordero, Director of the Division of the CDC responsible for developmental disabilities, oversees the CDC's efforts to fight autism. He notes, "its findings provide one strong piece of evidence that thimerosal is not causally linked to autism." Dr. Cordero, too, had seen the Generation Zero data and attended the meeting in Simpsonwood.”

*The meeting in Simpsonwood is often referred to as the meeting where they discussed how to conceal evidence of the harm caused by mercury from the public. Get ahold of the transcript and make up your own mind.

One last comment to completely invalidate this study… (And something that Mr. Science Blogger leaves out) In Denmark, the number of vaccines and amount of mercury are far less than in the U.S. making this study completely invalid and inapplicable to Autism in the United States!

Read more about it in the link to J.B. Handley’s article above… or at least read an excerpt from it here:

“Danish children receive 75% less Thimerosal than American children, they receive immunizations when they are older, and the U.S. autism rate is TEN TIMES the rate of Denmark (Denmark is 1 in 1,600, U.S. is 1 in 166).”

Also from this article…

“And, here’s Boyd Haley, Ph.D., recounting his experience with the 2004 IOM when he tried to explain the fraudulent nature of this work (a work which was cited as one of the primary studies behind the 2004 IOM’s conclusions):

“I have been calling this work fraud every since it came out, even at the 2004 IOM Committee meeting where Dr. Marie McCormick ended my questioning of Dr. Hviid, who was presenting the Danish data, because he would not, or could not tell me the autism rates in the USA vs Denmark---he feigned not understanding my question because the maximum rate of autism was less than 4/10,000 in Denmark in 2000 whereas in the USA the rate was 67/10,000 having increased from about 3-4/10,000 from 1985 and earlier.

This makes all the Danish studies invalid, it is like studying the effect of mosquitoes on the spread of malaria and doing the studies in Alaska instead of the Panama…This data was manipulated to appear to cause an increase in the autism rate after the removal of thimerosal. One educated in epidemiological sciences has to be really incompetent to not find this deceptive utilization of the Danish data-----this apparently includes the responsible individuals at the CDC and in the AAP.”

Readers without agendas are smart enough to figure out which information in this thread to trust, I suspect.

But for those who'd like a skeptical thinking refresher, Michael Shermer's "Baloney Detection Kit" lists ten criteria for evaluating questionable claims:

http://www.boingboing.net/2009/06/25/howto-ask-good-skept.html

Meanwhile, just yesterday my daughter's school sent home a notice about a school-wide pertussis (whooping cough) exposure, something that would have been unthinkable before Wakefield.

HarrisTweed-

1. I do not lie. I simply present information not given out by doctors or mainstream media. In order to truly be educated one must look at both sides. I also present my opinion which freedom of speech entitles me to do.

2. Diseases were not wiped out immediately after vaccines. Many were on the decline prior to the introduction of vaccines. Diseases can and do decline on their own without a vaccine. Where did scarlet fever, the plague, and typhoid fever go? We never vaccinated against those in the U.S. Interesting how you easily say it cannot be a coincidence that disease numbers dropped after vaccine introduction, but I am sure you are quick to say that regression that thousands of parents witness in their children after vaccination surely must be a coincidence.

3. Yes, the diseases you mentioned are still in the third world – WHY? We spend tons of money through UNICEF and Bill Gates to vaccinate the third world. Why do those diseases not go anywhere? It is because they still don’t have proper sanitation and nutrition! Can you name any one industrialized nation where any of these diseases are a real problem?

4. I don’t want to hear anything about the Danish and autism. They give WAY less vaccines than us and later than us. They give 21 by the age of 18 months (with 3 of those being 3 doses of PCV which was just introduced in 2007). We in the U.S. give 34 by 18 months and that doesn’t include influenza vaccines. It is also interesting to note the number of vaccines given in other countries in comparison to ours along with their autism rates.

Don't tell me I haven't looked at the science. I have and it sucks. Sorry but I don’t buy the epidemiological (statistical) studies that are used to suggest there is no vaccine/autism link. Anyone can twist and turn statistics to reach their desired result. And we must consider the stakes here...if vaccines do cause autism in some, what would this do to the vaccine program? Also, take a closer look at these studies and you will see they all have huge conflicts of interest. (But we don’t care about that, we just care about Wakefield’s conflict of interest, right?)

5. I am not encouraging people to not vaccinate. I am simply encouraging people to educate before blindly agreeing to our bloated vaccine program. We give almost triple what other industrialized countries give and I think parents should know that. Vaccination as with another other medication brings risk. It is up to the parent to decide which risk they are willing to take. Parents need to GET THE VACCINE INSERTS (not the one page sheet you get when you go to the doc) read them, and decide for themselves. It is only there that you will read about all the potential side effects to these vaccines. The government knows that vaccines harm some, but they believe it is necessary in order for the greater good. As far as reactions being rare, yes, it may appear that way until you dig deeper. How many doctors fail to report reactions and simply tell the patients that vaccines don’t cause that… or that is just a coincidence? Reactions are much more common than we are told. And if you really believe in vaccines, then get on it and push for better safety, more accountability, and the proper studies that will help convince parents they are safe and effective, because the scare tactics aren’t working. Until change happens, the exemption rate will just continue to rise and that is the fault of government and industry lies, omissions, and failure to do the proper safety studies that could reassure parents. Not to mention the fact that they continue to do asinine things such as continuing to approve rotavirus vaccines that have DNA from a pig virus while they test these contaminated vaccines further. Seriously? And it’s really important to be on the market because 24 out of 4 million babies born die from rotavirus each year? Not to mention that 90% of rotavirus vaccine sales are in the U.S. and we are only one of three countries that even bother with this vaccine. The FDA continues to make horrible choices like this which only causes more and more people to question the safety of vaccines. It is becoming more and more obvious how much of this is actually about making money.

Don’t lecture me about spreading misinformation, when everything I have written can be verified. I already have looked at the other side and have not found a single shred of evidence that vaccines saved us from disease because there is none. (Please provide something convincing, and I will consider it) Instead what I continue to find is highly vaccinated populations who get the very disease they are vaccinated against and clinical studies from credible sources that clearly show that adjuvants such as aluminum and mercury are linked to autoimmune responses, neurobehavioral deteriorations, toxicity that causes cell death and DNA breaks, etc. Why aren’t government and industry looking at these studies??? And we need to stop doing statistical studies that prove nothing and start studying the population that has gotten sick, just as Bernadine Healy (M.D. and former Director of National Institute of Health) suggests.

So please don’t tell me I am brainwashed by information that is un-scientific, when it is quite the opposite. I have researched the benefits and risks of each and every disease, the efficacy rates and risks of every vaccine, and continue to read scientific journal articles everyday. You want me to see more from your side. Fine. Post it. I am happy to read whatever you have.

Now instead of wasting your time ripping into someone you have no idea about, how about YOU take a look at the other side. In order to do so, you might have to set aside your fear of disease. Do you think this is possible? I will help get you started…

Some people believe that contracting childhood disease can be harmless (and even very beneficial to the immune system protecting us from allergies and other auto-immune conditions) with very rare instances of complication if you have proper nutrition and care... That is unless you have received too many vaccines and the body has spent so much time activating the TH2/humoral part of the immune system (the part that primarily produces antibodies) that it now has trouble mounting a TH1 response (the cellular part of the immune system that kicks in when you encounter disease naturally and helps the body to destroy, digest, and expel foreign antigens from the body). If you haven't done reading in this area, I would highly recommend it. Those who study vaccines are looking at how they can influence the outcome of vaccine administration - mainly the TH1/TH2 responses. They already know that an imbalance of the TH1/TH2 immune responses are a huge problem or they wouldn't be studying it.

Again, if you believe in vaccines then stop fighting us parents with concerns and join us in pushing for the science we need to get answers. I am sorry but parents are not going to continue to take the response that we don’t know why our kids are so sick when the increase in these conditions directly coincides with the increase of vaccines and vaccines have NOT been properly studied. (No long term studies, placeboes being another vaccine, no studies of the vaccinated versus unvaccinated, the throwing out of those who experience adverse reactions, etc.) Not to mention the lack of studies that prove safety and effectiveness.

Please, YOU do US all a favor (and our children for God’s sake) and take a closer look at the LACK of science. It will no doubt enrage you and motivate you to push for the missing science so parents can once and for all have the information they need to truly make an informed choice. Until the science has been done, the unanswered questions remain, and Wakefield along with parents like me will continue this fight. So if you really want to make a difference you will call your lawmakers and push them to demand for the gold standard in science (double-blind, placebo controlled studies)…demand studies conducted by independent scientists to get rid of the conflict of interest… and demand studies of our kids who are sick. Tell them it is NOT okay to allow a vaccine contaminated with DNA from a pig virus on the market and by doing so they continue to destroy the already failing confidence in the vaccine program. Join the cause. Your time would be much better spent.

1. I do not lie. I simply present information not given out by doctors or mainstream media. In order to truly be educated one must look at both sides. I also present my opinion which freedom of speech entitles me to do.

Yes, you do lie. You are a liar. You haven't looked at the information of both sides, that much is clear.

2. Diseases were not wiped out immediately after vaccines. Many were on the decline prior to the introduction of vaccines. Diseases can and do decline on their own without a vaccine. Where did scarlet fever, the plague, and typhoid fever go? We never vaccinated against those in the U.S. Interesting how you easily say it cannot be a coincidence that disease numbers dropped after vaccine introduction, but I am sure you are quick to say that regression that thousands of parents witness in their children after vaccination surely must be a coincidence.

Yes, diseases were wiped out within a few short years after vaccines were introduced. The science is quite clear (not that you'd know since you obviously only follow anti-vax brainwashing). Scarlet fever is caused by a bacteria and is treated with antibiotics. The plague happened in the 14th century and stopped after it had killed 40-60% of the population of Europe. More sanitary conditions in the modern world make the plague much less of a threat. There was a typhoid fever vaccine developed after WW2, no clue why you'd bring that up. The science supports the fact that there was a causation between vaccines and vaccination programs and the eradication of the diseases that killed the majority of people 100 years ago. Despite the best efforts of researchers, there is not one single causal link between vaccinations and autism. Let me say that again. There is not one single piece of evidence to support the idea that vaccines cause autism. Period.

3. Yes, the diseases you mentioned are still in the third world – WHY? We spend tons of money through UNICEF and Bill Gates to vaccinate the third world. Why do those diseases not go anywhere? It is because they still don’t have proper sanitation and nutrition! Can you name any one industrialized nation where any of these diseases are a real problem?

I applaud the amazing vaccination efforts of NGOs and especially private entities like the Bill & Melinda Gates foundation. However, the plain fact of the matter is that there has not been nearly enough vaccination to prevent the spread of these diseases. The top killer in the developing world is lower respiratory infection and is typically associated with AIDS, vaccine programs are not available for either. Number 2 is AIDS which does not have a vaccine. Number 3 is malaria which does not have a vaccine. Number 4 is diarrhea which is caused by poor sanitation but is not cured by vaccinations. Number 5 is Tuberculosis which is passed by coughing or sneezing (not unsanitary conditions) and is prevented with vaccines, but there are not enough available. Number 6 is Measles which is highly contagious and is also passed via coughing and sneezing and not unsanitary conditions and also is preventable by vaccines which are not available to enough people. Number 7 is pertussis which is passed by coughing, sneezing, or talking, is prevented by vaccination, and not enough vaccines are available. Number 8 is tetanus which is spread by bacteria infecting cuts. These bacteria live in soil so are prevalent world-wide. Tetanus is prevented by vaccines. Number 9 is meningitis spread by close contact and sharing eating and drinking utensils and is once again prevented by vaccines that are not widely available. Number 10 is Syphilis which is not preventable with vaccines. So of the top 10 killers in the developed world, there are 5 diseases that are preventable with vaccines and none of the 5 has anything to do with unsanitary conditions. In other words, you've got no clue what you're talking about. You're passing on information as fact without knowing for certain that it is fact. That is lying.

4. I don’t want to hear anything about the Danish and autism. They give WAY less vaccines than us and later than us. They give 21 by the age of 18 months (with 3 of those being 3 doses of PCV which was just introduced in 2007). We in the U.S. give 34 by 18 months and that doesn’t include influenza vaccines. It is also interesting to note the number of vaccines given in other countries in comparison to ours along with their autism rates.

Of course you don't want to hear about the Danish study, it completely blows your theory out of the water. The thimerosal-containing MMR vaccine which anti-vaxxers declared to be directly and unequivocally linked to autism in children was shown conclusively to not be linked in any way, shape, or form to autism. In fact, kids who had that vaccine were slightly less likely to develop autism. But you don't want to hear that. You only are interested in information that might support your nonsense ideas.

Don’t lecture me about spreading misinformation, when everything I have written can be verified.

Everything you've written is nonsense anti-vax propaganda and lies. You spread dis-information because you have an ill-formed world view and are too stubborn to think that you could possibly be wrong. Instead of you being wrong, the whole scientific community is, in unison, disagreeing with you because they just want to make your kids sick so they can get money. It's all complete garbage and it's a waste of time. If you want answers, you're barking up the wrong tree. Vaccinations have been shown to be safe and effective in the VAST majority of cases. Any serious side effects are limited to those with allergies or other rare genetic issues. The only people who really care about their children and children in general are those who get their kids vaccinated. It's really that simple.

Harris,

You are nothing but a “science blogger” who has NOTHING to say on the science that is missing. Nothing. For those who are new to these science bloggers/skeptics, this is what they do. Run around to various websites and do everything they can to try and discredit anyone who questions vaccines. They spend their time name calling, and using scientific psychobabble to try and make parents believe that they are not smart enough to evaluate medical journals. All you need to do is spend some time on their websites in their comments section and see for yourself. Newsflash for you Harris – you will never make any impact on the educated. You see, we are perfectly capable of reading scientific literature to evaluate if the right questions are being asked, the proper methodology being used, and what the conclusions do or do not conclude. We are perfectly capable of recognizing conflict of interest as well as finding out which studies were done in conjunction with the CDC to attempt to achieve a pre-determined outcome that could be used in their attempt to increase vaccination rates. The fact is, the proper studies that would really settle this vaccine/autism issue have not been done and they will not do them for fear of what it could show. Even Bernadine Healy (M.D. and former director of the National Institute of Health) says this. Government and industry know that if they do the proper studies and the outcome shows vaccines do cause autism for some then the vaccine program could very quickly fall to its knees!

Regarding the Danish study… I discuss that in great detail in an above post. Anyone who actually takes the time to read this study can see how ridiculous it is that it is being used to convince parents that vaccines don’t cause autism…not to mention the massive conflict of interest.

It is clear to all the readers that you are guilty of exactly what you accused me of which is only examining one side of this issue. Your lack of comment on the huge decline that took place prior to vaccination and after sanitation and hygiene took place, as well as your INABILITY to provide ANY convincing evidence whatsoever that proves the safety and effectiveness of vaccines, says a lot. It is also clear that you are fully aware that the science is lacking because for every unanswered question or statement about studies that have not been done- you have provided nothing. Nothing.

MMR and Thimerosal have been studied in relation to Autism and THAT IS IT. One vaccine. One ingredient. And that is supposed to be enough? And we are supposed to be okay with a bloated vaccine schedule that has NOT been studied as a whole? We are supposed to be okay with vaccine studies where “placebos” are another vaccine? ***We are supposed to be okay with the fact that NO ONE HAS STUDIED WHAT IS SAFE OR TOXIC IN REGARD TO HOW MUCH ALUMINUM WE CAN HANDLE IN VACCINES, YET THIS IS A VERY COMMON ADJUVANT FOUND IN OUR VACCINES? I am sorry but I as well as other parents will continue to see a LACK OF SCIENCE. With the increase in autism, diabetes, asthma, learning disabilities, auto-immune diseases and childhood cancer all with NO EXPLANATION, I think we have a right to thorough science. Do you not care about this WHATSOEVER???

You are clearly pro-vaccine at all cost and believe that some babies should have to die and become disabled for what you believe to be the greater good. You don't care about the children or you would help push for the studies we need in order to know which part of the population is more susceptible to vaccine reaction, so parents could make an informed choice about the risks/benefits of vaccines.

And seriously… you have nothing to say about the FDA approving rotavirus vaccines that were recently found to be CONTAMINATED with pig viruses from day 1, while they do more research? You have nothing to say about the known TH1/TH2 imbalance caused by over-vaccination which leads to allergies and other auto-immune diseases? The reason you make no comments on this is because you HAVE NOTHING TO SAY. These are not lies, these are the facts. The science does not exist. If it did, you would reference it. It's really just that simple.

Melanie, the pig virus issue is a perfect example of antivaccination spin. Thank you for bringing it up:

"Using powerful new DNA technology, Delwart’s San Francisco team detected fragments of a pig virus in GlaxoSmithKline’s Rotarix, which protects babies from a diarrhea-causing infection. The pig virus is common in pork products and is not known to cause disease in animals or humans"

Details on how antivaxxers took this information and used it for scaremongering: http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2010/05/storm-in-a-teacup/#ixzz0p5aekrXu

No spin here. Just the facts. Not sure I know any 2 month old babies that eat pork, do you? And if there was no concern, why did the FDA temporarily suspend Rotarix that was found to be contaminated with PCV1 (the more benign of the two viruses found) back in March?

Now they have found that Rotateq (Paul Offit's vaccine - and yes he is one of the people quoted in the Shannon’s link to attempt to reassure parents of safety) is contaminated with PCV1 and PCV2. PCV2 is much more dangerous then PCV1 and we know a lot less about it. (PCV2 depletes the immune system and allows for other secondary pathogens to infect the pig, usually resulting in extreme weight loss and eventual death.)

So what does the FDA do? Keep it on the market as well as putting Rotarix back on the market! Unbelievable!

Sorry, but the FDA is not looking out for our kids.

Other side notes on each rotavirus vaccine:

GlaxoSmithKline remains committed to eliminating PCV1 contamination from Rotarix by altering its manufacturing process.

90% of Offit's Rotateq vaccine sales come from the U.S. And they couldn't possibly pull his vaccine. Especially since he is the face of their efforts to convince the public that vaccines are safe. What a joke.

The most critical part of spin: deny spinning.

Claiming to have facts and truth on your side is just that - a claim. Readers who take the time to read this thread carefully, and to follow the links (yours as well) will quickly understand where evidence is legitimate and where it is lacking.