Do you think good parents can raise 'bad seeds'?

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Do you think good parents can raise 'bad seeds'?

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    In his recent column "Accepting That Good Parents May Plant Bad Seeds" in The New York Times, Dr. Richard A. Friedman explores the paradox of "good parents with toxic children." Friedman makes the case that loving, conscientious parents can somehow manage to bring up kids who are generally unkind and unsympathetic to other people. While not letting truly bad parents off the hook, he argues that some offspring simply may not be nice people. What do you think of Friedman's argument? If "bad seeds" emerge, must the parents bear at least some responsibility? Do you think it's possible for compassionate parents to raise children who lack compassion themselves?

    Watch video: Bad kids raised by good parents

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    respect & empathy need to be taught in the home. Parents are just too permissive & kids aren't learning these values

    • 1 vote
     - 10:20 am EDT on Fri Jul 23, 2010

    "Truly bad parents" and "bad seeds"? How simplistic can you get? We live in an age where nobody wants to take responsibility.

    • 3 votes
     - upsi
     - 10:25 am EDT on Fri Jul 23, 2010

    I agree; I have sister with mental illness who chooses 2 go off her meds;results led her to b 'bad' Mental illness defines this issue.

    • 1 vote
     - 10:59 am EDT on Fri Jul 23, 2010

    I believe after a certain age, everyone knows right from wrong no matter who raised you. We must accept responsibility for our own actions.

    • 1 vote
     - Auriana
     - 11:23 am EDT on Fri Jul 23, 2010

    We label people too easily. I was considered a "bad seed" because I had more liberal ideas than my conservative parents. Labels do harm.

    • 1 vote
     - badseed
     - 11:56 am EDT on Fri Jul 23, 2010

    Yes, I have seen this in my own family.

    • 1 vote
     - 10:12 pm EDT on Fri Jul 23, 2010

    Some are good people BUT lousy parents who raise ill-behaved kids. There really should be a required parenting class when you're expecting.

       - 12:32 am EDT on Sat Jul 24, 2010

      Parents, there's help...! Visit www.CharacterAvenue.com

         - 6:50 pm EDT on Mon Jul 26, 2010

        aaron will grunt another tune when the child is 14.

           - 4:24 pm EDT on Fri Jul 30, 2010

          We raised 3 kids in same home with same morals. 2 went wild & 1 was trustworthy. All raised the same way. Case in point.

          • 1 vote
           - 8:26 pm EDT on Wed Aug 4, 2010

          It will be very difficult to impart moral values to their children, if the parents do not have them. Children learn by watching and immitat

             - 11:29 am EDT on Thu Aug 5, 2010

            What is a good parent ?

               - 7:29 pm EDT on Wed Aug 11, 2010

              "good parents with toxic children."
              I fear my step-son is toxic...

              • 1 vote
               - Rixar13
               - 5:58 pm EDT on Mon Sep 13, 2010

              i deal with kids on a daily baisis. their parents are wrong...their kids are not saints

                 - 2:49 pm EST on Mon Dec 13, 2010

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                No. Never. There has never been good parents who have raised bad children.

                  Reply#1 - Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:37 AM EDT

                  What planet are you from?

                  • 3 votes
                  #1.1 - Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:37 AM EDT

                  yeah, really I'd love to know!

                  • 2 votes
                  #1.2 - Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:24 PM EDT

                  he's right. no good parent has raised bad kids - this article nor any of your idiotic comments have provided sufficent proof otherwise. therefore mine and Jude's theory are relavent and part of free speech. until idiotic comments that were made against us are back'd up, go suck an egg (i wasn't taught to swear, i was taugh how to swear by others....not my parents) these comments are nothing more than that. comments.

                  and b4 you deside to retort, my evidance to back up what i believe, is my own life. I have routinely, been told that my child is the most well behaved 5yr old child they have ever seen.(commented by complete strangers, in a buffet line!)

                  I have a 'conserative' background, a strict hand (no i'm no stupid enough to put personal information on a public forum), with a masters in common sense. My family, both immediate and extended have all raised VERY good children with a varity of librial and conserative backgrounds. Therefore, I conclude: It is the PARENT that shapes the child. Always has been, and it always will be, no matter what some PHD-wanna-be-rich-to-tell-you-what-you-want-to-hear-and-steal-your-money dumbass tells you. Remember just because they have letters at the end of their name....doesn't mean their right. Do your reasearch! <- see common sense or go see your parents (unless your a bad seed) as they can instill some.

                  (again, its a comment based apon my experiance's, so go untwist your panties before you hit the keyboard, - then again, DO hit your keyboard - common sense would prevail over you getting angry over this comment anyway, therefore, go ahead HIT your keyboard as hard as you can.. please save the cyberspace from you drivvel)

                    #1.3 - Fri Jul 23, 2010 4:16 PM EDT

                    Aaron-493369,

                    Your post speaks clearly for itself, and your outlook, and dimly about practically everything else including your thought processes.

                    Delighted, though, to read that you have a delightful child. He/she must be a joy to you all.

                    • 3 votes
                    #1.4 - Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:42 PM EDT

                    Tooooo funny, Aaron. Your sense of humor is hysterically over the top funny.... you're sure there are no bad kids because you have a 5 yr old that's nice!!! A FIVE YEAR OLD!!! L&L&LOL.... he's probably getting all A's in Kindergarten, too!

                    ...."yes, based on my personal experience with my preschooler, there are no bad kids, he's SO polite at the buffets..."

                    OMG, I'm about rolling on the floor laughing right now... get back with us in another 15-20 or so years!

                    Angry? You are REALLY too funny....

                    Yes, there's nothing like having a sweet 5 yr old to delude us into believing "some PHD-wanna-be-rich-to-tell-you-what-you-want-to-hear-and-steal-your-money dumbass tells you," is the ignorant one...

                    ("Remember just because they have letters at the end of their name....doesn't mean their right."

                    BTW, its, they're right... not, "there" right, as in the contraction they + are, right?)

                    "HIT your keyboard as hard as you can.. please save the cyberspace from you drivvel"

                    This is the comic relief I sooo needed today, Thanks Aaron... L&L&L...

                    • 1 vote
                    #1.5 - Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:04 PM EDT

                    Aaron...I'm glad that your child is very well behaved (although I do hope that he/she isn't busy telling others to "go suck an egg"), but please promise me one thing...if you want your child to do well in school, don't ever help your child with spelling..ever. Okay??

                    • 1 vote
                    #1.6 - Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:57 PM EDT

                    A parent can shape a child, but the child can choose whether to rebell or not. I knew good parents who had rotten children, children who even thought that killing their parents in some way is a good idea.

                    Case in point, I know a couple with a vindictive child. The parents were great, but the girl rebelled to the point that she thought that she didn't need them and if they tried to stop her in anyway. . .they could go to hell. Mind you, her parents never hit or spanked her. They talked to her, grounded her. She stole, she got in trouble, she was punished (cut off her allowance, took things away, etc.).

                    She didn't like the fact that she was punished and grounded by her daddy so she decided that daddy needs to go any way possible. She made up lies and purposely hurt herself and blamed it on abuse from the parents (she would brag to her friends about lying and the the self-inflicted marks which is how we knew what she was doing). The cops were called a few times and one of her friends recorded her bragging what she was doing. In the end, she lost most of her friends and the friends sympathizes with the parents.

                    Then she went in for the kill: her dad had/has a bad heart and she knew that a big shock can give him a heart attack. So she went out, whored herself around, and got pregnant. The news gave him a heart attack and he was in the hospital for awhile. She admitted her plan to a friend of mine. She didn't want to be 'bossed' around by her family (bossing as in being told/punished for the consequences of doing drugs, stealing, etc.). I know she miscarried, but she didn't care.

                    I remember the family went to therapy, but again, the girl didn't want any part of it. I knew she got pregnant again some time later, but that all I heard. I don't know what else happened after that.

                    • 1 vote
                    #1.7 - Tue Sep 14, 2010 8:48 AM EDT
                    Reply

                    I don't feel the title "Bad Kids" is very appropriate. Having a child with ADHD I find it very offensive that NBC would label her as "Bad".

                    • 2 votes
                    Reply#2 - Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:48 AM EDT

                    your an idiot. no where in the column did they call ADHD kids 'bad'. calm youself! use common sense dumbass

                      #2.1 - Fri Jul 23, 2010 4:18 PM EDT

                      Aaron, calm yourself and use common courtesy.

                      • 2 votes
                      #2.2 - Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:45 PM EDT
                      Reply

                      Yes, good parents can raise bad kids. Adam and Eve raised Cain, who killed Abel.

                      • 1 vote
                      Reply#3 - Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:00 AM EDT

                      Eve disobeyed a direct order from God not to eat the apple, she was the very first defiant one.

                        #3.1 - Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:48 PM EDT

                        "Eve disobeyed a direct order from God not to eat the apple, she was the very first defiant one."

                        Eve was, arguably, Mama # Uno. So what's your point?? Is she a bad Mom, or a horrible child?

                        • 2 votes
                        #3.2 - Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:09 PM EDT
                        Reply

                        Respect and empathy should be taught in the home. Many parents are too permissive these days and their kids grow up selfish. Some parents defend their kids no matter how serious the infraction is. ADHD is no excuse for bad behavior - sorry your kid has a mental illness but s/he still needs to learn to live in society and it's your responsibility as the parent to teach those values. Pay attention to what your kid is doing. Teach them to hold doors open for others or to step aside to let someone pass. These are small efforts that are worth a million bucks. If you don't know how to teach these values, buy a book! there are plenty of effective parenting courses available to you. Tell you what...I wouldn't want to be a teacher these days and have to deal with these budding sociopaths.

                          Reply#4 - Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:27 AM EDT

                          I'm sorry, but even the best kids can follow "bad kids" examples, and can become bad themselves. Every kid is different and can have different ways of dealing with their emothions. Hypocrits are everywhere in this world and it cracks me up.

                          • 1 vote
                          #4.1 - Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:43 PM EDT
                          Reply

                          I have seen good parents with a bad child. He has schzhrophrenia. He does lots of drugs to try to stop the voices in his head. He steals and does anything for the drugs. Prescription drugs have not helped. He was a great kid until age 18 when this hit him. It is not fair to always blame the parents.

                          • 2 votes
                          Reply#5 - Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:41 AM EDT

                          Okay. He has schizophrenia. He's mentally ill... correct? This makes him "bad" and HE should be "blamed" for his behavior...???

                          Me? I couldn't find it in me to blame either the parents OR the "child" -- do you find it easy to do so?

                          If so, why?

                          • 2 votes
                          #5.1 - Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:20 PM EDT
                          Reply

                          I think mental illness defines this issue; as an adult now, my sister was always mentally ill. Over the course of her lifetime, she chose hundreds of times to go off the meds that stablize her schizophrenia. The results have led her to a very different path in life, compared to mine. Yet, we were raised and born to the same parents, shared everything, and are just 18 months apart. My Mother says she was just born this way. I agree that there aren't 'bad' kids; perhaps just those with undefined mental illness or attachments disorders. All the loving in the world can only support them; not change them. Now, as mother of 13-year-old daughter, I'm watching her like a hawk, praying every night. Is love, consistency and accountability enough?

                          • 1 vote
                          Reply#6 - Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:05 AM EDT

                          as a middle school counselor - that had to be the worse segment that Today has ran. I love your family tips, but that was just bad. First, empathy does not develop until age 10- already into a school - social stage- where other "markers" may already be present. Second, resident treatment is a HUGE jump for a family based on one behavior marker. First- the family needs to contact a professional, work with te people who are around them the most in a greater social setting, and then from there formulate a direction of treatment.....and within ourselves put a understandable line of closure to the old, "they are just kids being kids", maybe they are trying to tell you something by exhibiting poor behavior.

                          • 2 votes
                          Reply#7 - Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:53 AM EDT

                          I'm 60 and was diagnosed with ADHD 15 years ago. My son has it as well as my grandson. I too thought it short sighted to label my kids BAD. me on the other hand growing up in the 60's my teachers and parents and peers did label me bad or troubled. I also understand we had no knowledge of ADHD then. Ultimately things were very difficult for me. My advice as a parent, educate yourself about ADHD. As much as you can. Solving problems and issues with a ADHD child are quite different than with a child without ADHD. Parents too often fall back to old school techniques which only make the problem worse.

                          • 2 votes
                          Reply#8 - Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:53 AM EDT

                          I have to disagree 100% with the middle school counselor about children not being able to develop empathy until age 10. While it might take some that long, there are many, many children (including myself as a child) that are very empathetic at a young age. Actually it should be taught as early as possible and 10 is FAR too late to be teaching empathy.

                          As all people have different personalities children can have different personalities than their families which might result in good parents having "bad" kids. However, "good" parents does not necessarily mean "good discipline" so that is probably the cause. With the obvious exception of social disorders of course.

                          • 2 votes
                          Reply#9 - Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:43 PM EDT

                          And, surprisingly enough, "bad" parents can have really "good" kids. True?

                          • 2 votes
                          #9.1 - Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:36 PM EDT
                          Reply

                          You can absolutely have good parents raise "bad seeds". All it takes is not discipling your children when they are young. We have waaaaay too many of these kids out there today. Parents are getting way too permissive and spoiling their children with things. Too many parents who make excuses for their children's bad bahaviour. My sister-in-law lets her grandchildren run around in restaurants etc and doesn't see anything wrong with that. But the funny thing is, she never let her own children do that. Go figure?

                            Reply#10 - Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:02 PM EDT

                            The biggest problem with this segment is what if the parents are the ones with the personality disorders and the child is acting like a normal kid? My mother was the one with the problem and if she was watching your show when I was a kid she would continue her horrible behavior using the excuse her kids were "bad seeds" therefore removing all personal responsibility for her actions. Parents with personality disorders already believe their children are out to get them. Just because a parent views a child a certain way doesn't mean it's true. I don't think it was their intention, but your guests should be very careful about blaming children, it puts them at risk.

                            • 2 votes
                            Reply#11 - Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:13 PM EDT

                            Truth is, children will always be at risk of developing bad behavior. Whether it's the TV, peers, other adults in their lives or chronic illness. Yet parents have to be involved and get in the every day loop of their kids lives to know what's going on. You also need to be able to help your child choose better behavior at each stage of development. The younger they are, the less talking the more action you have to take. I had to sit my child down this month and discuss bad words and talk VERY firm to her. She'd picked up a word that her classmate was using. I could've ignored it/laughed at her childish voice using it/beat her/cried and blamed myself. I didn't. I let her know that it was an ugly word and now that she knew better, she was never to use it again. I explained, from a Christian point of view, why we don't use such language and what would happen if I heard her using it. I also told her how to respond to her friend if he used that word around her again. Children won't get it unless we model it and talk about what "GOOD" behavior is. We all grew up differently with a different set of norms...in my home butt was on the dirty word list....go figure.

                              #11.1 - Sat Jul 24, 2010 12:43 AM EDT
                              Reply

                              barring medical and mental illness, I find the question of how bad patents can raise good children much more of a conundrum. All parents make mistake, but some children turn out well in spite of it.

                              • 2 votes
                              Reply#12 - Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:17 PM EDT

                              Everyone's hitting all over the place here. So I suggest we clarify, let's define bad kids, & keep kids under the age of 16. Bad should be what society traditionally defines as bad: those that steal, lie, cheat, etc & do not have any remorse. They take an opportunity without care that it hurts others. (That removes ADHD, etc kids, because there again, you can have good & bad kids. No excuses.)

                              With that said, yes, Good parents can have kids that choose to be bad. It's empowering to kids just like adults. The best parents can do (which many do not, now a days), is teach them morals, minding (enforcing obedience-discipline) and manners. Morals (& empathy) come from the Bible, minding (the fear of receiving a genuine spanking in school did WONDERS at my elementary school in the 60's), and manners, which were taught in home/school. Put those back in place and more good parents would have less bad kids.

                                Reply#13 - Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:49 PM EDT

                                I believe after a certain age, everyone knows right from wrong no matter who raised you. We must accept responsibility for our own actions. People want to blame everyone else for their bad behavior when they should own up to whatever they have done. Whether we have been blessed or beaten in this life, everyone must be willing to deal with the consequences of their actions. No one is to blame but the person acting out. You can make things happen or make excuses. You decide if you want to be a winner or a loser in this life, not your parents.

                                • 2 votes
                                Reply#14 - Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:31 PM EDT

                                Thank you Auriana very well said. I came from a very large family. My mother and father worked hard to provide a good home where everyone was expected to do their part. But of a couple of my siblings turned out to be whiners, feeling sorry for themselves because we did not have all the extras. My attitude was to get and work for what I wanted. My parents should be given a medal!

                                  #14.1 - Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:18 PM EDT

                                  Agreed. It amazes me how people will shift the blame to the parents for when an adult gets in trouble. A 25 years old steals a car and swears and fights with the police; the parents both worked while the kid was growing up: blame the parents. The discipline including spanking when he did something wrong: blame the parents. The parents believed their kid needed to earn and work hard before getting something in life: blame the parents.

                                  The parents get blamed for anything even if their child is 40 years old.

                                  I'm 25 years old and my parents did what I mentioned above and I am not breaking the law or being a bad person. If I did anything like that, it would be MY fault; not my parents.

                                    #14.2 - Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:12 AM EDT
                                    Reply
                                    apple123Deleted

                                    I know that "good" parents can turn out "bad" kids. Its happened to me. I use the term "good" losley cuase I'm not going to claim t be perfect buy I tryed to teach my kids right and wrong, good work ethics, how to manage money etc. and I know I couldn'd have been all bad cause two of my kids turned out great but the other one..... I love my son very much but he's been in truble one way or another since he was in preschool. he's not ADHD, he's not mentaly ill - he's just a pain in the butt. he's an adult now and nothing has changed.

                                    I've seen kids from very bad homes turn into great people and I have seen kids from good homes turn into real jerks. we have to stop playing the blame game in this country and start making kids (and adults) take responsability for there own actions. there is no such thing as a perfect parent but most of us try to do what we think is right. I stopped blaming my pareents forr my problems when I had teenagers of my own.

                                    (I know there are grammer and spelling issues in this, please ignore them and just read)

                                    • 2 votes
                                    Reply#16 - Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:54 AM EDT

                                    Being a mom with a child that has ADHD. I am on the fence with this. My child has attention issues but these kid need very strong limits and behavior management plans. If a parent is not willing to put forth that effort then they will have a child that behaves badly.

                                    My daughter may be a bit impulsive but I have taught her and given her empathy. As a result she does not have a mean bone in her body. School loves her - despite her ADHD diagnosis I am lucky not to get calls about her behavior.

                                    When you have a child with a Psych Diagnosis you can not just be a good parent. You have to be the best parent you can be.

                                    A parent that has a child with Bi Polar disorder or Schizophrenia has even more on their plate. Don't give up - early intervention with firm limits and a good behavior plan will go a long way.

                                      Reply#17 - Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:02 PM EDT

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                                        Reply#18 - Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:50 PM EDT

                                        Young children are full of surprises and we never know what to expect.
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                                          Reply#19 - Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:55 PM EDT

                                          2010 and we are asking this question? YES! So what are you going to do about it? Someone mentioned 10 year olds. They are normally in 4th grade and know right from wrong, but many parents AND public schools give them excessive warnings . . too many . . . .because they are too busy . . . . and you can't 'stop' everything because of one child . . . . Are we digging up the corpse of Dr. Benjamin Spock? God forbid. You cannot wait until a child is in their teens to teach them the law of retribution. Do so and you have 'bad' kids with the exception of the joyful handful who 'turnout' in spite of their parents. WASP

                                          • 1 vote
                                          Reply#21 - Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:01 AM EDT
                                          nlucciDeleted

                                          YA YA Ya Ya all that sounds good but here is the ugly truth. We make excues about these little bad as# rug rats there parents don't teach them respect manners disiplin.That's to old school.The kids act like we do and what they see around them. When you get up to go to work your child shoud be up getting ready for the day make the bed wash face brush teeth eat and help u the parent wash dishes and of to school on time. no excuess!!!!!!!!! If your childern don't do at least 60% of the house work and you work all day to take care of them you are your kids problem. Oh dont spank your kids that's bad put them in time out ha ha ha let your kid get cought breaking the law you are the one who will court cost lawyer fees.That the good story on the other hand get cought by some like me trying to rob or steal from my family and he meets mr COLT 1911 .45 the game changes. The children our children some so blame good parents for bad seeds bad parents for bad seeds they will be delt with .

                                            Reply#23 - Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:27 PM EDT

                                            I am so sorry for you -- but I'm more sorry for your children.

                                              #23.1 - Tue Sep 28, 2010 11:59 AM EDT
                                              Reply
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